Joey Votto: "The stat I value most is wRC+"

[reedjohnsonfan]

A few things:

 

1) Who gives a s***?

 

2) The post you quoted didn't even say that. He said Votto's job is to drive in runs. That's incorrect. Votto's job is to be the best hitter he can be.

 

3) You habitually play devil's advocate by agreeing with horrible posts. I recommend being a bit more judicious when you do this.

 

1) I'm posting in response to someone else saying they raise a good point. I'm not telling anyone else to care.

2) From a fan standpoint, a big part of Votto's job is to drive in runs. That's what I was pointing to.

3) I was just saying that wrc+ doesn't matter to the fans, so in a way that guy was raising a good point. Not sure how that's devil's advocate, I didn't read the whole thread which I now assume posted similar rude comments towards what he had said.

[gruber92]

Just enjoy the f***ing game and appreciate the actual physicalities that these professional ball players can bring. Stop overlooking the actual physical act by fast forwarding to check how his WRC + has been affected. For fans who actually play or played ball, I think there is a greater appreciation. All others view the game in a digital sense. This is where things get seriously f***ed up. Also, players are paid to perform. Understanding sabermetrics will not make a player better.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Please note that the post you thought made a "good point" said absolutely nothing about fan perception of Votto.

 

It's a pretty subjective thing what a player is paid for. You could say to sell seats, but what's that mean? Winning ball games, doing things that entertain fans. This is getting too theoretical.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Just enjoy the f***ing game and appreciate the actual physicalities that these professional ball players can bring. Stop overlooking the actual physical act by fast forwarding to check how his WRC + has been affected. For fans who actually play or played ball, I think there is a greater appreciation. All others view the game in a digital sense. This is where things get seriously f***ed up. Also, players are paid to perform. Understanding sabermetrics will not make a player better.

 

That's also a pretty good point. So Votto likes wrc+, there's not much reason to think that contributes to him being an excellent hitter. Hayhurst knows some stats and didn't have more than a cup of coffee in the majors. Point being there's no reason to think this makes a player better/worse.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Depends on the player. If JPA was smart and would rather walk than strikeout, he could probably have a 70 wRC+.

 

It's possible, but it could also make him a lot worse... he ends up taking too many pitches or something. To say JPA would be a better hitter if he knew stats better is just speculation.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Not really.

 

Oh ok so what is a player paid for then? It's a hypothetical question so if it's not subjective then what is your expert answer?

[gruber92]

Why does it bother you that fans appreciate a player that takes the time to understand his job as thoroughly as possible? It probably has no effect on his performance, but it's nice to see a player not dismiss math as nerd stats.

 

It doesn't bother me that fans appreciate a player's appreciation in thorough statistics, just return the favor.

[Smokey]

It's possible, but it could also make him a lot worse... he ends up taking too many pitches or something. To say JPA would be a better hitter if he knew stats better is just speculation.

 

You clearly didn't watch many games last season.

[reedjohnsonfan]

You clearly didn't watch many games last season.

 

Ya you're right, I stopped watching in September.

[gruber92]

Depends on the player. If JPA was smart and would rather walk than strikeout, he could probably have a 70 wRC+.

 

Are you mentally challenged? JPA just doesn't have the talent, period. It's as simple as that.

[SAAviour]

Just enjoy the f***ing game and appreciate the actual physicalities that these professional ball players can bring. Stop overlooking the actual physical act by fast forwarding to check how his WRC + has been affected. For fans who actually play or played ball, I think there is a greater appreciation. All others view the game in a digital sense. This is where things get seriously f***ed up. Also, players are paid to perform. Understanding sabermetrics will not make a player better.

 

You make a good point about just enjoying the game, but this stuff (for me) is interesting to read about in the offseason when there are no games to enjoy.

[reedjohnsonfan]

To provide wins.

 

I don't think there's any evidence on that: a player gets a contract based on how many wins they expect him to provide. Considering you guys think many FO's are tools, there definitely should not be evidence on that.

[reedjohnsonfan]

This is probably the worst post in the history of this forum. Congratulations.

 

Um it's clearly an obvious statement, right? So that was my point, JFaS thinks a player gets paid to provide wins, but obviously there's no evidence on that. So, I'll ask you again, what does a player get paid for?

[reedjohnsonfan]

Oh sorry it was you not JFAS, so let me know... you think a player gets paid to provide wins... why do you say that?

[Abomination]

http://mromantico.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/hook-line-and-sinker-1202.jpg

[gruber92]

If Votto was dumn and listened to the harsh fan criticism he might take fewer pitches, walk less, strikeout more, and provide fewer wins. Or maybe not.

 

Votto is the same player today as he was when he was 14 years old, a complete player. It's who he is and nothing is going to alter his approach, especially opinions from fans.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Ever watched or played baseball?

 

But, who's to say knowing some stats makes him a better player? It's conceivable that it makes him a worse player. Maybe if he took less walks he'd be more aggressive and be an even better overall hitter. There's not much reason to think either side has much merit.

[gruber92]

Ever watched or played baseball?

 

Plenty.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Careful, this was borderline snark.

 

I like how you're quoting me based on a sarcastic remark I made. It's cute. But I still want to know why you think a player gets paid to provide wins. I'm waiting for your expert analysis.

[TRM]

FWIW, my favourite stat and the stat I value most is HR's against lefties during afternoon games played in a dome on natural grass. When the count has two strikes.

[TRM]

But I still want to know why you think a player gets paid to provide wins. I'm waiting for your expert analysis.

 

This, like the fact that the sky is blue and you are a moron, is something that really doesn't need an "expert analysis" to understand"

[jays_fever]

I like how you're quoting me based on a sarcastic remark I made. It's cute. But I still want to know why you think a player gets paid to provide wins. I'm waiting for your expert analysis.

 

You want to know why a baseball player gets paid to help his team win games?

[havok24]

This, like the fact that the sky is blue and you are a moron, is something that really doesn't need an "expert analysis" to understand"

 

Well for "morons" it sure does need "expert analysis" to understand.

[TRM]

ITT: Understanding compensation and how it relates to job description

[reedjohnsonfan]

This, like the fact that the sky is blue and you are a moron, is something that really doesn't need an "expert analysis" to understand"

 

Why? This seems to be something people take for granted and are pushing aside. I keep asking the question and have yet to get an answer. It's funny how you are saying I'm a moron yet nobody has answered the question yet.

[gruber92]

Do you not recall him saying he'd rather try and hit a home run and strikeout than take a walk?

 

Yup, but that's just part of his talent pool. Do you not recall the old saying "hitting takes just as much mental talent as it does physical". Shall we discuss the intelligence JPA brings?

[reedjohnsonfan]

Do you actually believe someone is going to seriously engage you on this? "1+1 = 3. Prove me wrong herp derp!"

 

Okay so don't answer. I'm going to assume it's because you aren't able to give a good answer. But that's ok, we don't need to beat a dead horse. I was actually interested to see why you thought players got paid according to how many wins they'll provide, but maybe you are not able to give a good explanation. You treat it as a sort of black box, which is fine and most people do, I just thought you might have some more insight.

[TRM]

Okay so don't answer. I'm going to assume it's because you aren't able to give a good answer. But that's ok, we don't need to beat a dead horse. I was actually interested to see why you thought players got paid according to how many wins they'll provide, but maybe you are not able to give a good explanation. You treat it as a sort of black box, which is fine and most people do, I just thought you might have some more insight.

 

Fine, I will bite.

 

People are paid to fulfill the job they are employed to do. Baseball players are employed to win baseball games. The better they are at the job they are paid to do, the better the compensation. Therefore, more wins provided equals more money paid. That's why we don't pay Maicer Izturis the same as Miguel Cabrera.

[gruber92]

Then you should know there are such things as development and hitting coaches.

 

To most, but players like Votto you don't alter much. My point is that Votto's approach has been the same since he was 14.

[havok24]

Fine, I will bite.

 

People are paid to fulfill the job they are employed to do. Baseball players are employed to win baseball games. The better they are at the job they are paid to do, the better the compensation. Therefore, more wins provided equals more money paid. That's why we don't pay Maicer Izturis the same as Miguel Cabrera.

 

I can't believe you actually needed to explain this.