BP Podcast on Jays/Stroman

[HERPDERP]

You're making s*** up. I've never been a fan of veterany baseball teams. And early in Alex's tenure I was one of his biggest supporters with his building of the organization. If at any point he even made reference to dealing off bunches top prospects for sketchy expensive vets, I would've been off the AA bandwagon faster than a Jays fan cried the day it was found out Halladay was in Philly for a physical.

 

There's no reason why he couldn't keep making deals like the Santos/Molina, Morrow/League trades....etc. He's gone from being creative making value upside moves, for youth, athletic, financially flexible players on the good end of the defensive spectrum for the long haul, to trading for expensive, old, poor value, now, defensively inept, sell ticket type moves for the now.

 

A complete 180.

 

How exactly is Dickey a sketchy veteran? Up until last year he had three solid seasons to his belt. Same thing with Johnson. No one could have predicted his fall. His only drawback was injury concerns and that didn't play a huge part. Sorry Mr. Armchair GM, but you can't second guess like that.

[fireballW]

You're making s*** up. I've never been a fan of veterany baseball teams. And early in Alex's tenure I was one of his biggest supporters with his building of the organization. If at any point he even made reference to dealing off bunches top prospects for sketchy expensive vets, I would've been off the AA bandwagon faster than a Jays fan cried the day it was found out Halladay was in Philly for a physical.

 

There's no reason why he couldn't keep making deals like the Santos/Molina, Morrow/League trades....etc. He's gone from being creative making value upside moves, for youth, athletic, financially flexible players on the good end of the defensive spectrum for the long haul, to trading for expensive, old, poor value, now, defensively inept, sell ticket type moves for the now.

 

A complete 180.

 

Really just go fap with your pal Spanky in a corner. There is no point talking to people like you. You call me making s*** up for saying AA said over and over he would use prospects to acquire elite talent? Like come on? I listen to all the interviews dwad. I can't count on two hands the amount of times I have heard AA specifically say he would do this, and talk about prospects as currency in trade. Or are you trying to argue that Reyes, Dickey and Johnson aren't elite type talents? I really don't have the patience to have someone who belittles people on a regular basis come on and say I am making s*** up when I've specifically heard what I said AA said many times. If you had the blinders on and just heard what you wanted to hear then that's really your own fault. Nobody is saying you need to like the trade, or like AA. But to just ignore things he says that you don't like so you can keep in a happy bubble didn't seem to work.

 

There is really no doubt at all that you as a major league GM would never have a winning team because you'd be perpetually sacrifice your team to have a good prospect list like in your fantasy leagues.

[fireballW]

While I have mixed feelings on Gibbers, everything he said about himself in the first paragraph is completely true, and I would have a hard time disagreeing with his second paragraph.

 

What I hope (in this case probably hopelessly) want to be true is that last offseason, well pretty much anything since the Happ trade, was a result of pressure from the powers that be to compete and become relevant in the Toronto sports market, and that there is still that good GM from before inside Alex somewhere.

 

I don't even get what you are saying. Gibbers post has nothing to do with what I said, a post that wasn't even directed at him. He is responding to my post wherein I am calling out any bozos who are acting like AA didn't say many times part of building the farm was to use the prospects to acquire elite level talent in trade. He had many interviews, MANY where he talked about acquiring elite level talent as the priority. Many times he specifically referred to the 3 ways to do this: through the draft, through FA and through trades. That someone is sitting here saying he only liked AA because of a plan that said person has completely fabricated in his own mind, is ridiculous.

 

I really don't need to defend this as this thread gets lost in Gibbers unrelated and misguided replies and Spanky's nonsense.

[HERPDERP]

Really just go fap with your pal Spanky in a corner. There is no point talking to people like you. You call me making s*** up for saying AA said over and over he would use prospects to acquire elite talent? Like come on? I listen to all the interviews dwad. I can't count on two hands the amount of times I have heard AA specifically say he would do this, and talk about prospects as currency in trade. Or are you trying to argue that Reyes, Dickey and Johnson aren't elite type talents? I really don't have the patience to have someone who belittles people on a regular basis come on and say I am making s*** up when I've specifically heard what I said AA said many times. If you had the blinders on and just heard what you wanted to hear then that's really your own fault. Nobody is saying you need to like the trade, or like AA. But to just ignore things he says that you don't like so you can keep in a happy bubble didn't seem to work.

 

There is really no doubt at all that you as a major league GM would never have a winning team because you'd be perpetually sacrifice your team to have a good prospect list like in your fantasy leagues.

 

Gibbers has always been known to be a second guesser, on this forum and on the last. He never admits when he is wrong. This forum is just one giant circlejerk.

[TRM]

I don't even get what you are saying. Gibbers post has nothing to do with what I said, a post that wasn't even directed at him. He is responding to my post wherein I am calling out any bozos who are acting like AA didn't say many times part of building the farm was to use the prospects to acquire elite level talent in trade. He had many interviews, MANY where he talked about acquiring elite level talent as the priority. Many times he specifically referred to the 3 ways to do this: through the draft, through FA and through trades. That someone is sitting here saying he only liked AA because of a plan that said person has completely fabricated in his own mind, is ridiculous.

 

I really don't need to defend this as this thread gets lost in Gibbers unrelated and misguided replies and Spanky's nonsense.

 

I often don't know what I'm saying either, for what it's worth.

[GeorgiaPeach]

How exactly is Dickey a sketchy veteran? Up until last year he had three solid seasons to his belt. Same thing with Johnson. No one could have predicted his fall. His only drawback was injury concerns and that didn't play a huge part. Sorry Mr. Armchair GM, but you can't second guess like that.

 

Um, how am I an armchair GM, or second guess when my stance on veterans and expensive players was the same before the Marlins & Dickey trades?

 

You f***ing idiots that loved the Dickey & Marlins trades are experiencing a team who isn't contending,. So when all these veteran players contracts are up, or retire, where are the Jays? They'll have a 70-80 win team with a farm coming along as we had a few years ago. Wooohooo!!!!! back in 2010/2011 again. Why keep setting up these windows to contend? Why not look at the biggest picture you can think of and keep making the window bigger and bigger to contend. I don't understand the, we have 3 years to f***ing contend......oh yeah Beeston, 3 years to contend and then what you f***ing clown?

[Dr. Dinger]

This thread is for pumping my thanks/post ratio, not personal squabbles.

[Angrioter]

This thread is for pumping my thanks/post ratio, not personal squabbles.

 

http://images.wikia.com/uncyclopedia/images/8/88/Hitler_06.gif

[Smokey]

Really just go fap with your pal Spanky in a corner. There is no point talking to people like you. You call me making s*** up for saying AA said over and over he would use prospects to acquire elite talent? Like come on? I listen to all the interviews dwad. I can't count on two hands the amount of times I have heard AA specifically say he would do this, and talk about prospects as currency in trade. Or are you trying to argue that Reyes, Dickey and Johnson aren't elite type talents? I really don't have the patience to have someone who belittles people on a regular basis come on and say I am making s*** up when I've specifically heard what I said AA said many times. If you had the blinders on and just heard what you wanted to hear then that's really your own fault. Nobody is saying you need to like the trade, or like AA. But to just ignore things he says that you don't like so you can keep in a happy bubble didn't seem to work.

 

There is really no doubt at all that you as a major league GM would never have a winning team because you'd be perpetually sacrifice your team to have a good prospect list like in your fantasy leagues.

 

So what??? Him saying he'd use prospects as currency somehow justifies him overpaying for a bunch of vets when the team was coming off of a 74 win season??? Does it change the fact that the year before, after an 81 win season, he completely failed to improve the team and then illogically shifted gears the year after??? How about the fact that after all those moves we're now positioned to finish at or near the bottom of the ALE this season without much financial flexibility or prospects to work with???

[GeorgiaPeach]

Really just go fap with your pal Spanky in a corner.

 

Aww.....I prove my point without insults and you go off the rails and make it personal.

 

[There is no point talking to people like you. You call me making s*** up for saying AA said over and over he would use prospects to acquire elite talent?

 

Maybe you're right, he did say he was gonna use prospects as currency.....after he went full retard and started dealing them all away. As for elite talent. In my world "elite talent are superstars and aces. Not former #1 SP with injury histories (Johnson), not overpaying for a reigning CY Young trophy and only 2 other "good" years under his belt in a tumultuous lengthy career (Dickey), Reyes is an electric player, but a shadow of his former self. Its not your world where some young fans who have too much time on their hands vote a billion times online to push a scrub player into an ASG.

 

Like come on? I listen to all the interviews dwad. I can't count on two hands the amount of times I have heard AA specifically say he would do this, and talk about prospects as currency in trade.

 

You can. Well that's just snazzy.

 

Or are you trying to argue that Reyes, Dickey and Johnson aren't elite type talents?

 

They're not. Reyes was the closest thing to being elite, but that was like 6-7 years ago.

 

I really don't have the patience to have someone who belittles people on a regular basis

 

People who cry about getting belittled are weak. People who get belittled and belittled back are strong.

 

If you had the blinders on and just heard what you wanted to hear then that's really your own fault.

 

No blinders necessary. I'm a baseball fan who's neutral to what happens to any team. And really, in regards to prospects or other teams....I'd be willing to bet I've spent more time in the last 5 years reading, listening, digging....etc for info on any other team and/or their prospects than you have on the Jays.

 

Nobody is saying you need to like the trade, or like AA. But to just ignore things he says that you don't like so you can keep in a happy bubble didn't seem to work.

 

I can't wait till Paul Beeston's dead.

 

There is really no doubt at all that you as a major league GM would never have a winning team because you'd be perpetually sacrifice your team to have a good prospect list like in your fantasy leagues.

 

I don't play Fantasy Ball anymore, so I don't know what you're talking about.

[GeorgiaPeach]

I don't even get what you are saying. Gibbers post has nothing to do with what I said, a post that wasn't even directed at him. He is responding to my post wherein I am calling out any bozos who are acting like AA didn't say many times part of building the farm was to use the prospects to acquire elite level talent in trade. He had many interviews, MANY where he talked about acquiring elite level talent as the priority. Many times he specifically referred to the 3 ways to do this: through the draft, through FA and through trades. That someone is sitting here saying he only liked AA because of a plan that said person has completely fabricated in his own mind, is ridiculous.

 

You're a casual fan that needs to be exterminated. What else is there to say?

[Abomination]

Maybe you're right, he did say he was gonna use prospects as currency.....after he went full retard and started dealing them all away.

 

He did say from the start that he wanted to build the farm both to feed the major league team and to use as currency in trades. People around here really only took notice of it after he started actually trading them. That doesn't make it necessarily right (especially the targets he chose to trade for), but this wasn't some kind of abrupt departure.

[Abomination]

He said he'd use them as currency, and sustain both the farm and the MLB maintain a sustainable MLB club for years, nothing about windows.

 

Yeah, the window thing was new, but not using the prospects as currency. And really, 3 years from now those kids on the farm may be ready to start getting their feet wet in the majors. I think all of us would prefer to have what the Cards do right now, but 28 other teams in baseball probably do as well.

[KingKat]

Yeah, the window thing was new, but not using the prospects as currency. And really, 3 years from now those kids on the farm may be ready to start getting their feet wet in the majors. I think all of us would prefer to have what the Cards do right now, but 28 other teams in baseball probably do as well.

 

AA used prospects in trades before (Johermyn Chavez, Tyler Pastornicky) but it was more about evening out deals or jumping the timeline on still young talent (Molina for Santos). AA's always been willing tu use prospects as currency but being willing to use prospects as currency doesn't imply using prospects to take on salary dumps. That was unquestionalby a departure for AA.

[Dr. Dinger]

I'll take heat for this but I don't think any of AA's trades have been particularly bad in hindsight. IMO we didn't give up any impact guys in the Florida deal or the Happ deal. We'll probably lose the Dickey trade when all is said and done, but at least Dickey is a solid asset on a value contract. Reyes and Buerhle are assets on market value deals. We didn't take on any prohibitive albatrosses or deal any elite young talent with the possible exception of Syndergaard, and he's completely untested still. It may turn out that the best asset we actually traded was Yunel. People cried foul when we traded Snider, Wallace, etc, but it turned out that AA correctly pegged them as non-impact players.

[KingKat]

It may turn out that the best asset we actually traded was Yunel.

 

That's nothing to sneer at but if you assume AA had no choice but to move Escobar, his overall record looks better. It's true that the non-Escobar pieces weren't so bad. Reyes is an expensive replacement at SS but if you assume that AA HAD to replace Escobar, he's not so bad.

 

All the moves are defensible in isolation (well unless moving Escobar was simply a personal preference which is undefensible). The overall roster construction was seriously weak though regardless of what you say about the moves individually. Two swith-hitting 2B neither of which could back up SS. Seemingly blind faith in Arencibia. No depth at 3B behind Lawrie. The season went worse than expected but a lot of what went wrong was existing flaws being exposed.

[LunchBox]

There should be a central "AA Cluster f*** Thread", too many decent topics such as this devolve to this state almost immediately. Realistically, the question "Can Ryan Goins Stick?" should quickly and conclusively be answered "no way" lol. Instead, how many of the 108 pages are probably about the inactive Jays' offseason or more generally AA's proficiency?