2013 less productive players

[Angrioter]

http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=367&d=1380823087

 

Maicer -2.1

Melky -0.9

JPA -0.6

________

-3.6WAR

 

[G-Snarls]

Just look at those PA.

 

Second most on the team for JP!

[G-Snarls]

It's hard to make yourself worth -2 WAR isn't it...

[Angrioter]

Yuniesky Betancourt last 3 years

 

Salary 15.3M (3 years)

1221 PA

-16 runs in defense)

-2.9 WAR = -14.5M - Salary = -29.8 Millions

[P2F]

First of all, lol at Hech.

 

Secondly, f***.

[Olerud363]

http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=367&d=1380823087

 

Maicer -2.1

Melky -0.9

JPA -0.6

________

-3.6WAR

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]367[/ATTACH]

 

You add in Thole, some of the other scrubs that were at 2nd, c, left.... those positions were -5.

 

That is OK news if AA recognizes this. If you could go from -5 at 2nd, c left to +5 that's 10 wins. How did it work out for pitchers?? Intuitively I don't believe jays are as weak in starters as AA thinks. Everyone was kind of mediocre and even JJ who crashed, had OK peripherals, so there is no obvious route for dramatic improvement. Or is there??

[Orgfiller]

So to summarize: amongst the top 15, JP has:

 

The 3rd most PA

2nd worst BB%, 3rd worst K%

2nd lowest AVG, worst OBP

4th lowest wOBA, 4th lowest wRC+

 

But he's second in RBI and first in HR so it's all good, great season. #Top10Catcher

[Jays]

Arencibia wasn't negative in the Def part?

[kcjaysfan]

This is a list of all players in either league who hit at least 20 HRs and had a wRC+ below 100. One of these players kind of stands out, doesn't he?

 

[table=width: 500, class: outer_border]

[tr]

[td]Player[/td]

[td]HR[/td]

[td]wOBA[/td]

[td]wRC+[/td]

[td]WAR[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]J.J. Hardy[/td]

[td]25[/td]

[td].322[/td]

[td]99[/td]

[td]3.4[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Mitch Moreland[/td]

[td]23[/td]

[td].320[/td]

[td]95[/td]

[td]0.7[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Matt Wieters[/td]

[td]22[/td]

[td].302[/td]

[td]86[/td]

[td]2.4[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Dan Uggla[/td]

[td]22[/td]

[td].303[/td]

[td]91[/td]

[td]0.5[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Matt Dominguez[/td]

[td]21[/td]

[td].301[/td]

[td]89[/td]

[td]1.0[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]Mark Reynolds[/td]

[td]21[/td]

[td].310[/td]

[td]96[/td]

[td]0.4[/td]

[/tr]

[tr]

[td]J.P. Arencibia[/td]

[td]21[/td]

[td].259[/td]

[td]57[/td]

[td]-0.6[/td]

[/tr]

[/table]

[Laika]

No, they don't show the positional adjustment in the dashboard stats. Arencibia was legitimately rated a positive defender at catcher.

 

Nah, they changed it.

 

-5.2 fielding / 8.8 pos adj / 3.6 defense

 

Fangraphs used to show UZR/150 on the dashboard but they switched to what is now basically UZR + positional adjustment

[Laika]

Why don't the numbers add up then? Hech would be a total -34.8 runs below replacement, which doesn't get you to -1.9 WAR.

 

The only things in the WAR equation that are hidden now are the league and replacement level adjustments.

 

Replacement runs are set at like 21 per 600 PA. And the league adjustment essentially makes total leaguewide wins above average = zero.

 

Just go to the 'value' section for Hech and it will make sense

[sachmo55]

JPA is basically Miguel Olivo without adequate defense

[G-Snarls]

jpa is basically Buck Martinez without adequate defense

 

ftfy

[kcjaysfan]

If only Arencibia could walk rate as often as Buck Martinez did. Jesus, JP strikes out at over twice the rate that Buck did...

[flafson]

Interesting, so when JP has a plus year on defense he sucks big time, when he has a plus year on offense, he's just below average.

On the other hand, if it means that JP can have a plus glove and we all know about his potential with the bat, there is no way in hell that AA will give him up.

[GD]

The only things in the WAR equation that are hidden now are the league and replacement level adjustments.

 

Replacement runs are set at like 21 per 600 PA. And the league adjustment essentially makes total leaguewide wins above average = zero.

 

Just go to the 'value' section for Hech and it will make sense

 

I've read it's between 17-20, not that it makes a whole ton of difference.

[Orgfiller]

Jesus f***. Izturis was a horrible signing. How did he get a 3 year deal.

 

No one expected him to be the least valuable player in MLB, same as how no one expected Melky to be this awful, and people were ok with his deal IIRC.

[TheHurl]

Nah, they changed it.

 

-5.2 fielding / 8.8 pos adj / 3.6 defense

 

Fangraphs used to show UZR/150 on the dashboard but they switched to what is now basically UZR + positional adjustment

 

They got to change that it looks stupid seeing a DH as -15 Defense

[Laika]

They got to change that it looks stupid seeing a DH as -15 Defense

 

Yeah, I don't really like it either. I know what most of the positional adjustments are anyway so I'd rather just see UZR or UZR/150.

 

They should go super saber and just remove R and RBI from the dashboard, and then have battings runs, baserunning runs, fielding runs, and positional adjustment all right there.

 

It's also stupid that they list BsR and then list Offensive Runs which includes BsR.

 

I also don't really care though.

[Laika]

They had BSR off and people complained a lot on the article explaining the changes, so they added it back on by itself.

 

For a saber website run by nerds, Fangraphs can be a pretty stupid place.

 

I especially like when they post full length articles that essentially boil down to, "This guy is playing poorly but he has a really bad BABIP and/or HR/FB or whatever so he'll probably improve".

[Angrioter]

Jesus f***. Izturis was a horrible signing. How did he get a 3 year deal.

 

Track "f***ing" Record.

The regression, age and others don't matter. AA is a genius................f*** you Freidman.

[Angrioter]

Interesting, so when JP has a plus year on defense he sucks big time, when he has a plus year on offense, he's just below average.

On the other hand, if it means that JP can have a plus glove and we all know about his potential with the bat, there is no way in hell that AA will give him up.

 

JPA has never had a plus year on defense. What you're seeing is a negative fielding contribution combined with his positional adjustment. The only valuable thing JPA does is actually crouch down behind home. Once there, his offense, defense, and baserunning are all below-average for catchers.

 

They got to change that it looks stupid seeing a DH as -15 Defense

 

The Arencibia's season in terms defensive was negative (between the incumbents of the same position). "Def" is set to the positional adjustment, the contribution looks positive because "the spectrum defensive or positional value"

 

 

Positional Adjustment:

C +12.5 for C

SS +7.5

2B/3B/CF +2.5 (********)

RF/LF -7.5

1B -12.5

DH -17.5

 

 

JPA vs RF/LF/1B/DH looks great.

JPA Vs the other catchers in the league looks like s***

 

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