Yan Gomes - Another Missed Talent

[Deadpool]

OPS 930

Hitting 307

 

for a middle bullpen scrub

stop defending AA, i cant remember the last time this loser made the right move

 

I think the trade was dumb, trading almost anything for relief arms is a stupid decision (Snider for Lincoln falls into this category as well), but implying that Gomes is a .930 OPS player is kinda retarded.

[Deadpool]

.252 .323 .392 .714 <- this is Snider's numbers this year, vs. only righties... I'm ready to declare Snider a total bust.

 

6.89 ERA, 1.85 WHIP, 15/11 K/BB, .281 BAA <-- Lincoln's numbers this year (yes, not great stats, but y'know). Snider has more value than Lincoln.

[connorp]

Meh who cares. They both suck.

 

Yep. Sniders trade value was mud. It was either keep him as a lottery ticket or move him for crap. Would rather have Melky on his deal (who we never would have got)

[Deadpool]

Yep. Sniders trade value was mud. It was either keep him as a lottery ticket or move him for crap. Would rather have Melky on his deal (who we never would have got)

 

His value was more than a terrible relief pitcher...

[BlueJayWay]

His value was more than a terrible relief pitcher...

Apparently not :/

[hummus]

Yan Gomes? Of all the talent Toronto has passed on you single out JAN GOMES??

[Caper]

Imagine what we'd all think if 3 years ago, someone said AA would trade Molina, Thames, Snider, and Gomes for pitching?

 

Yan Gomes kind of came out of no where.

[Deadpool]

Imagine what we'd all think if 3 years ago, someone said AA would trade Molina, Thames, Snider, and Gomes for pitching?

 

Well, if he'd traded them for like... Lester and Kershaw or something...

[Caper]

Not really. He was red hot last year in Spring Training. Smashed at Triple-A. Came up and played sparingly but showed some power. Also showed he could play multiple potions. He could play C, 1B, 3B, LF, and RF. He has some big hits for Cleveland. Extremely valuable player to have. Not as an everyday guy though.

 

That's what I mean... before spring training I never heard of the guy.

[Clojojo]

finishing this year with a great 840 OPS

troll huh... another victory in my book, another write off in AAs

[Olerud363]

Yan Gomes kind of came out of no where.

 

He didn't come out of no where. He had slightly better minor league numbers then J.P. Arencibia. For whatever reasons the dogma that he had "a hole in his swing", "aaaa player", blah, blah, blah, caught on.

 

J.P. minor league numbers - .275 .319 .507

Gomes minor league number - .287 .345 .484

 

Yan had a better k/bb ratio. Possible AL manager of the year John Farrel says the Blue Jays can't develop players. So here is a simple model. Call it the Farrell model. I don't care if you don't like Farrell we'll make a model and see if it predicts the future or not.

 

Farrel Model - Farrell says the Blue Jays can't develop players... so when a player leaves give him a little bonus for being with a better organization, when a player stays subtract a little for being exposed to the cesspool that is the Toronto Blue Jays.

 

This model predicts Yan gomes to hit .255 .315 .403 in the majors, J.P. to hit .233 .293 .420 in the majors. Yan is only overperforming slightly in the context of his minor league numbers and move to a better organization.

[jaysblue]

I don't think anyone expected Yan Gomes to hit the way he has this season. It's a great story though. I think the tough part was trading Aviles since the Jays could have really used him filling in all around the diamond with the injuries to Reyes, Lawrie and awful play from Maicer and Boni. Rogers put up solid numbers in relief last season with the Tribe (good K/BB ratio), though he was never going to have a prominent role in this bullpen. He basically just played the role of Charlie V. Overall, Cleveland got more value back in the deal.

[jaysblue]

This may be a fair criticism. AA's moves/transactions suggest that, for some reason, he places a premium on controllable relief pitching. That's why he's traded for Santos, Delabar, Rogers, and Lincoln and spent so much time on Jeffress. Its a fool's errand.

 

The thing I don't like about this strategy is that relief pitching is extremely volatile, that from year to year you can't rely 100% on the same middle relief guys to put up exact/similar numbers. So big deal Lincoln was on a 5-year team friendly deal - how can you project his performance over 5 years?

 

Obviously the Delabar deal was good, no complaints there. Trading a below replacement level outfielder for a high K% reliever with upside was a good buy. I didn't even have a problem with the Santos trade since he was looking like he was going to become an elite closer. The problems I have are how AA kind of goes overboard with relievers, especially when it comes down to trading valuable MLB assets like Aviles, Napoli or signing scrubs like Francisco Cordero when you really don't need to.

[Olerud363]

The Farrell model? What the f***?

 

The Farrell model. All it does is adjust according to John Farrell's world view. Only slightly. Any player who is brought up by the blue jays will perform 5% less then expected, any player who is traded from the Blue Jays will play 5% better then expected.

 

Not saying it IS true. Saying that if Farrell's world view is true we would expect players to disappoint as blue jays but surprise when they move to other teams.

 

So now we can't even state what would happen if Farrell is right?????

 

In the context that Farrell is correct, then Yan Gomes is performing exactly as expected.

 

I am not saying Farrell is correct. I am saying that the performance of Yan Gomes makes perfect sense in a world where John Farrell is a correct. It is a model. You can have your own model of the world. Like the Blue Jays will win 100 next year because Beeston's IQ is 139. Not saying your model is correct. But we can test it, wait and see if the Blue Jays win 100 next year.

 

You can argue with my Farrell model fairly easily. For example bring up Travis Snider, then I'd bring up Hill, then we'd go back and forth a bit, until we figured out if there's any truth to the model.

[Olerud363]

I don't think anyone expected Yan Gomes to hit the way he has this season. It's a great story though. I think the tough part was trading Aviles since the Jays could have really used him filling in all around the diamond with the injuries to Reyes, Lawrie and awful play from Maicer and Boni. Rogers put up solid numbers in relief last season with the Tribe (good K/BB ratio), though he was never going to have a prominent role in this bullpen. He basically just played the role of Charlie V. Overall, Cleveland got more value back in the deal.

 

Avilles isn't much of an upgrade on Boni or Maicer... Kind of redundant with Kawasaki there as well to fill that role... and there not even being enough room for Kawasake.

 

Losing Yan Gomes isn't a huge deal... it's more throwing Yan Gomes away, but giving J.P. Arencibia 1500 plate appearance...

 

If your thinking is Yan Gomes ain't the real deal, or any deal, that same thought process should lead one to avoid giving so much playing time to Arencibia.

 

The fact that Gomes was viewed as litter, and Arencibia viewed as a rising star just shows a completely nonsensical thought process in the organization.

[G-Snarls]

I agree with you for once - losing Gomes isn't the problem. Having JPA as our starting catcher all season long was the problem. As long as that is rectified this off season I couldn't give a s*** about Yan Gomes.

[G-Snarls]

I sort of liked Gomes. But I like having Rogers as swing man too.

[Olerud363]

I sort of liked Gomes. But I like having Rogers as swing man too.

 

Yan Gomes has amassed more WAR in this season, in 77 games then J.P. Arencibia has in his putrid 370 game career...

 

So first off -- IF Yan Gomes was really this good, then it's a devastating loss, a franchise changing loss. Yan Gomes is basically playing at an all star level. He would be by far the best player on the Blue Jays if he kept this up for 140 games.... All star catcher.

 

So right away as experienced fans we mentally deduct a few points for "fluke", and assume the WAR is a little off here (Yan Gomes 3.4 wins in 77 games??????).

 

But still... He's played pretty f***ing good for 77 games.

 

My main problem with this is that isn't AA the ninja and his superscouts suppose to see what other's can't?? I mean aren't they suppose to find these under the radar guys that have potential that no one sees??

 

And I'm fine with "nobody could see it coming"... but if nobody can see these things coming what is the purpose of superscouts??

[tercet]

I highly doubt this is sustainable, but anyone who thinks letting gomes go was a mistake is stupid

[G-Snarls]

Not much love for Esmil Rogers on here, huh?

 

I'd take him at his salary over Happ at his, any day of the week

 

(Granted, there are zero Happ defenders these days)

[Olerud363]

I highly doubt this is sustainable, but anyone who thinks letting gomes go was a mistake is stupid

 

But who will have higher career bbrefWAR?? Gomes or J.P.??

 

J.P so far 3.0 in 371 games

 

Yan so far 3.4 119 games

 

Yan Gomes this year -

 

more WAR then Reyes 1.9

more WAR then Dickey 1.6

more WAR then Bhuerle 2.1

more WAR then Johnson -1.6

more WAR then Melky Cabrerra -0.2

more WAR then Thole -0.8

 

More WAR then Reyes + Dickey + Johnson + Melky Cabrerra + Thole + Cabrerra

[G-Snarls]

But who will have higher career bbrefWAR?? Gomes or J.P.??

 

J.P so far 3.0 in 371 games

 

Yan so far 3.4 119 games

 

Yan Gomes this year -

 

more WAR then Reyes 1.9

more WAR then Dickey 1.6

more WAR then Bhuerle 2.1

more WAR then Johnson -1.6

more WAR then Melky Cabrerra -0.2

more WAR then Thole -0.8

 

More WAR then Reyes + Dickey + Johnson + Melky Cabrerra + Thole + Cabrerra

 

Fine, but come on, be realistic. We need to do better behind the plate than Arencibia or Gomes if we want to win anything.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Seeing Yan Gomes succeed makes me very happy.

 

People can say he's a fluke or whatever.. but we still traded a young, controllable, versatile guy for a fringe relief pitcher. More egg on AA's face.

[Cooler Heads Prevail]

Not much love for Esmil Rogers on here, huh?

 

I'd take him at his salary over Happ at his, any day of the week

 

(Granted, there are zero Happ defenders these days)

 

I'm not sure why Rogers is sometimes dissed on here, he's pitching on par with several guys who are supposably worth a lot of money to sign. If Rogers remains a durable 5th starter he could help them at a much cheaper price. Jays used to have Stottlemyer back when they were good as 4th or 5th pitcher and they contended many years. So maybe that kind of pitcher ( cheap, inning eater with a durable arm ) is a good fit on a winning team.

 

Our home park can make our pitchers tend to look worse then they really are most years ( opposite effect for power hitters ).

[Olerud363]

Fine, but come on, be realistic. We need to do better behind the plate than Arencibia or Gomes if we want to win anything.

 

I look at it this way... if a team can find a diamond in the rough like Gomes... give him the right amount of playing time, give him the right instruction, develop him, get him in the right state of mind to perform at the upper limit of his alility, then it likely reflects many good things about that organization.

 

So Gomes and Cleveland do good together, because right now they have good leadership.

 

If a team takes a guy like Arencibia, gives him to much playing time, inflates his ego, ignores huge weaknesses, gets him in the wrong state of mind (doesn't understand his weaknesses like on base percentage), he starts out bad, and then somehow gets worse every year... then that likely reflects many bad things about that organization.

 

These guys are more like Canaries. Or a marker like blood pressure. They are a sign of the health of the organiztion.

[Angrioter]

Yan Gomes 2013 edition

.361 OBA, 132 wRC+, 9 DRS = 3.2 rWAR

 

lol Life suck at times

[TheHurl]

Here is the question...if Yan Gomes came available for next year at the price of a 3 WAR player, would you make the move to acquire him?

[Angrioter]

Here is the question...if Yan Gomes came available for next year at the price of a 3 WAR player, would you make the move to acquire him?

 

NO, he's not the big deal. SSS

[Jays]

Ban

 

This guy's saying what we're all thinking! (talking about spanky)

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Here is the question...if Yan Gomes came available for next year at the price of a 3 WAR player, would you make the move to acquire him?

 

Probably not, but that still doesn't take away from the fact that this was a botched deal.