Biggest Cases of Falling Off the Map

[Metallijay]

Rios took a big dive. 2007 War 5.0, 2008 War 5.4, 2009 War 0.0. However, Rios came back with some decent seasons and is still chugging along.

 

A decent case could be made for Ken Griffey JR.

 

How can you make a case for a sure fire hall of famer and one of the best players of his generation?

[KSaw]

If Griffey fell of the map he landed on an Atlas.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Ubaldo, Franklyn Gutierrez, Sizemore, Hanley, Figgins, Lincecum

 

Hanley looked like he was a FHOFER and then just fell apart.

[CHRIS]

A lot of the names mentioned don't really follow the spirit of the collapse we're talking about. I can understand players that fall apart due to age, injury, etc. In Ricky's case, it's a guy presumably in his prime who just loses it, unless there's more to the injury side of things than we've been led to believe. I can't believe that's the case though, since the organization has a good track record or being 100% transparent and honest when it comes to disclosing injury matters.

 

As a Jays fan, Romero's collapse is so disappointing. Still, part of me is fascinated watching things like this happen; Ankiel, Knoblauch with his fielding, etc.

[Olerud363]

Rios took a big dive. 2007 War 5.0, 2008 War 5.4, 2009 War 0.0. However, Rios came back with some decent seasons and is still chugging along.

 

A decent case could be made for Ken Griffey JR.

 

Juan Guzman had a decent rookie year, then a great 1992 then fell off the map like Romero.

 

He went 4-14 6.32 in 1995 in 24 starts,

 

But then 11-8 2.93 in 27 starts the next year, 1996.

 

A bad 1997, but managed a decent 1999 before injuries ended it.

 

These guys go up and down, up and down. Wells, Rios, didn't fall off the map. They just went up and down like nuts.

 

Romero could be done. But the last thing we need to see is Ricky being released and Farrell fixing him. Gotta somehow get him back on an up-cycle. Need an organization policy that you almost never give up on a player in a down cycle, never acquire players at a peak of an up cycle.

[Metallijay]

Joe mauer? He fell pretty fast.

[torontofan]

How can you make a case for a sure fire hall of famer and one of the best players of his generation?

 

Mainly because he went from being a 10War player to a below replacement player in less than 4 years. Majority of it had to do with his declining defence because of his knee problems.

[LGBJ29]

Joe mauer? He fell pretty fast.

 

how? he was an all-star last season (4.4 WAR) and has a career .323 AVG. I dont agree with whoever said Alfonso Soriano either.

 

Erik Hinske was pretty bad, although he managed to be a journeyman for a while.

 

Dice-K, Kerry Wood, Elijah Dukes

[Metallijay]

Mainly because he went from being a 10War player to a below replacement player in less than 4 years. Majority of it had to do with his declining defence because of his knee problems.

 

That's not fallling off the map thats injuries and age, he was beast for well over 10 years and one of the best players of a generation (Best IMO when you consider everyone else was a cheat), and he still had some good numbers later in his career. Not even remotely close, sure fire HOF.

[GD]

how? he was an all-star last season (4.4 WAR) and has a career .323 AVG. I dont agree with whoever said Alfonso Soriano either.

 

Erik Hinske was pretty bad, although he managed to be a journeyman for a while.

 

Dice-K, Kerry Wood, Elijah Dukes

 

I thought about Kerry Wood too, but he was never really that amazing.

[GD]

Yeah, just about anyone can strike out 20 batters in a game eh?

 

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=304&position=P

 

Career peak of 4.2 WAR? He was a good pitcher, but flashy strikeout numbers didn't help his 4+, 5+ BB/9 seasons.

[Captain Adama]

Has Dwight Gooden been said yet?

[LGBJ29]

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=304&position=P

 

Career peak of 4.2 WAR? He was a good pitcher, but flashy strikeout numbers didn't help his 4+, 5+ BB/9 seasons.

 

According to baseball-refrence his peak WAR was 6.2 in 2003

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/woodke02.shtml

[GD]

ROY in 1998, and some very productive seasons. 1998-2004 he posted a 3.63 ERA (118 ERA+) and had some ability to manipulate balls in play which neutralized his high walk rates. From 98-04 posted 22.3 bWAR.

 

Productive, but never really reached the point of produckshun where he could 'fall off the map,' so to speak. One of my favorite players, though.

[GD]

According to baseball-refrence his peak WAR was 6.2 in 2003

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/w/woodke02.shtml

 

Doesn't baseball reference use ERA in their formula for WAR instead of FIP? No thanks.

[GD]

And I believe that more because of Wood's demonstrated ability to avoid hits. He was a very good #2 starter.

 

A good #2 isn't what I had in mind with this thread lol. People were thinking Ricky was an ace and he just lost it.

 

Not ERA, but they do base it on runs and not DIPS. Its actually better than fWAR for guys like Buehrle and Dickey who can reliably beat FIP.

 

Yeah, I was gonna say, guys like Hellickson. Doesn't Fangraphs have RA/9wins for that, though? And does Wood really qualify for that category?

 

Edit: Wood's RA/9wins peak was 6.0. Very, very good but not what I had in mind with this thread lol, not like Prior.

 

It may still be early to say this, but has anyone mentioned Lincecum yet?

[GD]

I wouldn't be so quick to throw Hellickson in that that group. Its only been 400 innings, and all Rays pitchers beat FIP. His luck seems to be changing this year.

 

And yeah, FG has RA/9 wins for that purpose.

 

That's true, but he's done it so far, I'll have to keep an eye on him. The Rays REALLY should have sold high on him.

[GD]

I though/think so too, but then when they didn't I started to wonder if Friedman knew something we don't. Now Hellickson is rocking a 4.79 ERA and I have no idea what to think.

 

Lol could we finally be seeing multiple instances of Friedman being wrong? Joonel sucking (will probably improve but still), Rodney regressing, and Hellickson blowing. Huh.

[GD]

I feel sorry for the guy. With the payroll he's allowed, most of his job is throwing multiple very calculated pieces of s*** at the wall and hoping he guess right on enough to sneak into the playoffs. Johnson, Loney, and especially Fausto are all working out.

 

I saw an article from MLBreports (I think) screaming Fausto be cut due to his high ERA. Ugh.

[jays_fever]

For you fellow Young ens like myself who didnt really get to watch Griffey play all that much, go look up his Fangraphs page. A 423 wOBA with a 32 UZR and almost 50 dingers one year. How funny would it be if Mike Trout put up that line last year, probably would have stil lost the MVP

[jays_fever]

I feel sorry for the guy. With the payroll he's allowed, most of his job is throwing multiple very calculated pieces of s*** at the wall and hoping he guess right on enough to sneak into the playoffs. Johnson, Loney, and especially Fausto are all working out.

 

Friedman can leave any time he wants to. He obviously loves the challenge and enjoys having to make good baseball decisions rather than throw money at random players every free agency

[GD]

For you fellow Young ens like myself who didnt really get to watch Griffey play all that much, go look up his Fangraphs page. A 423 wOBA with a 32 UZR and almost 50 dingers one year. How funny would it be if Mike Trout put up that line last year, probably would have stil lost the MVP

 

I didn't get to watch Griffey much, but I love the guy, he's my favorite of all time. I vividly remember being stoked that his last career hit was a walk off single/double versus the Blue Jays. I was honored, lol. I was gonna go watch him that season but he abruptly retired.

 

I'm gonna drive down to Cooperstwon with my dad when he gets inducted.

[GeorgiaPeach]

classy post right there

 

Oh no, a stranger's loss of life was made fun of.

[TheHurl]

A guy that comes to mind for me in Jack Armstrong but I'm guessing his issues were injuries as well. Jack was a top prospect and at age 25 he went 11-3 with a 2.28 ERA getting him the starting gig in the 1990 all-star game. I'm not sure he pitched a good game again after that was 100% out of the league within 5 years.

[TheHurl]

No one has mentioned Mark Mulder either again it's injuries though

[frizzer1]

Vernon Wells was the 5 tool guy who never seemed to get the big hit in his first few years...then he was in the third spot ahead of Delgado..and with that protection he had a few excellent years...then one year Delgado struggled at the start and the pressure fell on wells and he couldn't deliver....then he was batting ahead of Hillenbrand and the 2 were expected to be the heart of the offense and neither one could get a runner in from third with less than 2 outs..so for me Vernon was never a hitter who could handle pressure..

So he goes to LA and is pathetic.....now he has announced his retirement and that seems to have taken the pressure off him..or at least that's how I see it.

[Metallijay]

I didn't get to watch Griffey much, but I love the guy, he's my favorite of all time. I vividly remember being stoked that his last career hit was a walk off single/double versus the Blue Jays. I was honored, lol. I was gonna go watch him that season but he abruptly retired.

 

I'm gonna drive down to Cooperstwon with my dad when he gets inducted.

 

Griffey was incredible........One of my fave players ever, could do everything always with a smile to boot, great player.

[wilko]

What about Albert Belle?

[Jimcanuck]

isn't Albert an injury case?

 

Fernando Valenzuela qualifies... 6 WAR at age 26, 2.1 WAR at age 27, then replacement level for the next 9 years

[Dr Negative]

Timo Perez was a legend in the 2000 NYM playoff run.