The JPA is the best thread.

[Metallijay]

He probably does get these ABs, but lets the pitcher off the hook. I recall one AB with ball four in the dirt and JPA went down and golfed it into CF as a lazy fly ball.

 

Somehow, somebody needs to convince JPA that taking a walk is OK.

 

Yeah this has been an issue for him and a few of our hitters. Swinging at bad pitches.

[saskjaysfan]

Uhmm no he wouldn't, he's below replacement value at DH. His only value is at the catcher position. His bat is okay for the position, but the problem lies in his defense.

 

I wasn't trying to imply that his bat didn't play at catcher, because it does. I just mean that his defense is so awful that it nullifies the things he actually does well offensively. The way he is hitting right now, I don't see how he could be below replacement level at DH. I realize DH has the lowest positional adjustment when calculating WAR, but he is .ops'ing .809 this year, just .007 less than Billy Butler, who is widely regarded as one of the best designated hitters in the league.

[dineke]

I wasn't trying to imply that his bat didn't play at catcher, because it does. I just mean that his defense is so awful that it nullifies the things he actually does well offensively. The way he is hitting right now, I don't see how he could be below replacement level at DH. I realize DH has the lowest positional adjustment when calculating WAR, but he is .ops'ing .809 this year, just .007 less than Billy Butler, who is widely regarded as one of the best designated hitters in the league.

 

Huge regression is coming soon. His insane flyball/HR rate is going to come down and then he'll become useless.

[SAAviour]

If he was the DH you also think he could concentrate on just hitting and possibly work on improving his walk rate. Right now it is likely that all the pre game work he does is working with the pitchers.

[CHRIS]

If he was the DH you also think he could concentrate on just hitting and possibly work on improving his walk rate. Right now it is likely that all the pre game work he does is working with the pitchers.

 

I think walk rate is part of a general philosophy of hitting. I don't think his walk rate is poor because he's distracted by his positional requirements, I think his walk rate is poor due to his general approach and pitch recognition.

[Angrioter]

JP Arencibia

Passball 6 > 2 walk

[GD]

If he was our DH, he would actually be pretty valuable.

 

what is this I don't even

[theblujay]

He's a little better than many people on here think he is. I think that has to do with the fact that many people seem to "love to hate" JPA. I'm not sure why we have to be so negative towards him, why can't we hope he has a good year and gets better?

[GD]

He's a little better than many people on here think he is. I think that has to do with the fact that many people seem to "love to hate" JPA. I'm not sure why we have to be so negative towards him, why can't we hope he has a good year and gets better?

 

Oh, I definitely hope he gets better.

 

He just really, really f***ing sucks.

[Metallijay]

He's a little better than many people on here think he is. I think that has to do with the fact that many people seem to "love to hate" JPA. I'm not sure why we have to be so negative towards him, why can't we hope he has a good year and gets better?

 

Umm no, he is really bad at his position. Don't you think everyone hopes he gets better? Isn't that obvious?

[theblujay]

Oh, I definitely hope he gets better.

 

He just really, really f***ing sucks.

 

This is what I'm talking about. He's not as bad as you guys make it seem. Sure he has an all or nothing approach and his defense is around average...but he's not the worst player every like you make it seem.

[Metallijay]

This is what I'm talking about. He's not as bad as you guys make it seem. Sure he has an all or nothing approach and his defense is around average...but he's not the worst player every like you make it seem.

 

Around average, in the minors maybe, his D is horrendous, one of the worst in baseball. He also cannot throw out runners at all. His numbers cannot sustain themselves so so many K's and almost no walks, too many fly outs.

[havok24]

This is what I'm talking about. He's not as bad as you guys make it seem. Sure he has an all or nothing approach and his defense is around average...but he's not the worst player every like you make it seem.

 

He is beyond atrocious behind the plate defensively, and how the heck is it possible to have a 2:42 BB:K ratio? lol

[Smokey]

Finally hearing some talks on PT about how terrible JP is at receiving pitches and how MB might have actually asked for a different catcher last night. I don't know why it took them so long to catch on?? Still good to hear though..

[theblujay]

Around average, in the minors maybe, his D is horrendous, one of the worst in baseball. He also cannot throw out runners at all. His numbers cannot sustain themselves so so many K's and almost no walks, too many fly outs.

 

He's also not going to sustain a 21:1 K:BB ratio and he's had a number of bad calls in 3-2 counts. He barely an average player, but you guys act like he's the worst ever. We have plenty of players on our team with -WAR and JP isn't one.

[GD]

This is what I'm talking about. He's not as bad as you guys make it seem. Sure he has an all or nothing approach and his defense is around average...but he's not the worst player every like you make it seem.

 

What the high holy f***?

 

He's also not going to sustain a 21:1 K:BB ratio and he's had a number of bad calls in 3-2 counts. He barely an average player, but you guys act like he's the worst ever. We have plenty of players on our team with -WAR and JP isn't one.

 

And you know this how?

[theblujay]

What the high holy f***?

 

 

 

And you know this how?

 

The same reason you know his HR/FB rate will regress. You're blinded by the hate.

 

About the defense, I think he's looked pretty good aside from opening night. Pitching framing I don't know much about.

[Metallijay]

The same reason you know his HR/FB rate will regress. You're blinded by the hate.

 

About the defense, I think he's looked pretty good aside from opening night. Pitching framing I don't know much about.

 

You lose any credibility when you say his D is pretty good, he is probably the worst defensive catcher in baseball. Cannot block balls in the dirt well, cannot throw out runners, bad at catching/framing pitches...

 

Thats the point, he cannot sustain his offense the way he hits.

[GD]

The same reason you know his HR/FB rate will regress. You're blinded by the hate.

 

About the defense, I think he's looked pretty good aside from opening night. Pitching framing I don't know much about.

 

Okay, but HR/FB is to a large extent, luck. JPA just can't take a f***ing walk. I'm not blinded, you're just fangirling over JPA, which is really f***ing annoying.

 

His defense has been pathetic and his pitch framing cost the team, what, ~1.6 wins last year? If the data is to be believed.

[theblujay]

So you guys think he HR/FB will definitely regress, but his K:BB rate won't?

 

You've over exaggerating how bad his defense is and I wouldn't call it pathetic.

 

Why do you have such a problem with JP when we're sending out players like Boni and Izturis who have less than -.5 WAR?

[Chappy]

Okay, but HR/FB is to a large extent, luck. JPA just can't take a f***ing walk. I'm not blinded, you're just fangirling over JPA, which is really f***ing annoying.

 

His defense has been pathetic and his pitch framing cost the team, what, ~1.6 wins last year? If the data is to be believed.

 

Honestly, if he played even average D, I wouldn't care about his OBP. But his D is some of the worst I have witnessed on an ongoing basis. It is not MLB worthy D unless he is putting up all start caliber offensive stats and he is certainly not.

 

I think we have all seen enough that poor D up the middle can cost this team a lot of games. I just wonder when this organization will realize we have a better option in AAA.

[Metallijay]

So you guys think he HR/FB will definitely regress, but his K:BB rate won't?

 

You've over exaggerating how bad his defense is and I wouldn't call it pathetic.

 

Why do you have such a problem with JP when we're sending out players like Boni and Izturis who have less than -.5 WAR?

 

HUH? Who said we were OK with Boni and izturis? No one is. And that has zero to do with JP. Yes his D is that bad. HR/FB is a lot diff the K/BB JP was never a guy who walked, thats the type of hitter he is, thats is not all of a sudden going to change. HR's always come in bunches, he wont keep this pace.

[theblujay]

Honestly, if he played even average D, I wouldn't care about his OBP. But his D is some of the worst I have witnessed on an ongoing basis. It is not MLB worthy D unless he is putting up all start caliber offensive stats and he is certainly not.

 

I think we have all seen enough that poor D up the middle can cost this team a lot of games. I just wonder when this organization will realize we have a better option in AAA.

 

I must be watching different games than you because his D this year has looked improved from last year and its definitely not the worst I've ever seen.

[Metallijay]

I must be watching different games than you because his D this year has looked improved from last year and its definitely not the worst I've ever seen.

 

You must be watching different games, because his D has been terrible.

[theblujay]

You must be watching different games, because his D has been terrible.

 

I'm not going to bother arguing with you over a subjective observation. His D has improved from the mess he was last year, and he hasn't been horrendous. You just love to hate him. There's no need for so much hate for one of our own players.

[Chappy]

I must be watching different games than you because his D this year has looked improved from last year and its definitely not the worst I've ever seen.

 

I think you stand heavily in the minority on this one. I try to be as objective as possible, and I really want JPA to succeed for this team, but his D is not worthy of being a starting catcher on a team that is supposed to contend.

[GD]

So you guys think he HR/FB will definitely regress, but his K:BB rate won't?

 

You've over exaggerating how bad his defense is and I wouldn't call it pathetic.

 

Why do you have such a problem with JP when we're sending out players like Boni and Izturis who have less than -.5 WAR?

 

Um, yes, regression to the mean..?

 

You wouldn't call it pathetic because you're a fangirl.

 

I have a problem with Boni, though, that's just the thing, he's not the only the player I hate (JPA). I hate Boni too, does that mean I can't f***ing hate Arencibia, too? (Izturis is pretty obviously turning it around imo, though)

 

Honestly, if he played even average D, I wouldn't care about his OBP. But his D is some of the worst I have witnessed on an ongoing basis. It is not MLB worthy D unless he is putting up all start caliber offensive stats and he is certainly not.

 

I think we have all seen enough that poor D up the middle can cost this team a lot of games. I just wonder when this organization will realize we have a better option in AAA.

 

Exactly, he'd probably be a really nice catcher if he could, well, catch. But he can't. It's pathetic.

[theblujay]

I think you stand heavily in the minority on this one. I try to be as objective as possible, and I really want JPA to succeed for this team, but his D is not worthy of being a starting catcher on a team that is supposed to contend.

 

I'll stand by opinion until I see something to change it and I realize I'm in the minority. At least you don't have the irrational hate for JPA and wish for him to fail like more than half this board.

[GD]

I'm not going to bother arguing with you over a subjective observation. His D has improved from the mess he was last year, and he hasn't been horrendous. You just love to hate him. There's no need for so much hate for one of our own players.

 

Both metrics, the eye test from people other than fan girls, and common f***ing sense disagree.

 

Look, I really want Arencibia to succeed, I nearly bought his jersey a few years ago. When he first came up, I'd go to games and look specifically for him, try to get his autograph. On opening weekend 2011 (I think.. the day Drabek threw that insane 1 hitter) vs the Twins, he was signing autos, and I JUST missed one. I was heart broken.

 

I really want him to succeed, and I want what's best for the team. However, he's a really, really f***ing bad catcher right now, and the only reason he has any value whatsoever is because he plays catcher, fairly ironically.

 

This isn't about hate, it's about being realistic.

[Metallijay]

Both metrics, the eye test from people other than fan girls, and common f***ing sense disagree.

 

Look, I really want Arencibia to succeed, I nearly bought his jersey a few years ago. When he first came up, I'd go to games and look specifically for him, try to get his autograph. On opening weekend 2011 (I think.. the day Drabek threw that insane 1 hitter) vs the Twins, he was signing autos, and I JUST missed one. I was heart broken.

 

I really want him to succeed, and I want what's best for the team. However, he's a really, really f***ing bad catcher right now, and the only reason he has any value whatsoever is because he plays catcher, fairly ironically.

 

This isn't about hate, it's about being realistic.

 

Even buck martinez and greg zaun called out JP a lot the last few weeks over constant cross ups with pitchers, inability to frame pitches, block balls in the dirt. He's useless throwing out runners. Anyone who has watched baseball can see JP is a bad catcher.

 

We are jays fans we obviously want him to be great, the only person being irrational is you. Trying to excuse away his lack of catcher skills.