glory

So when do we start talking about what the Jays could get at the trade deadline for their vets? Between the news of Osuna, the starting rotation pitching like ass, and an offence that will play Morales everyday until the end of time, I’m not very confident right now.

Man this team without good starting pitching is not even going to finish .500. The starters really need to turn it around.

It's amazing that the trio of scrapheap relievers Shatkins signed could all have some trade value at the deadline. Love their view on building a bullpen.

She's probably stuffing her face with food right now so she won't realize it until later.

Toronto fans are so stupid.

Rogers can EAD if they force Shapiro to trade Osuna for nothing just to get rid of him. Maybe 2018 is a wash for him with this, but if he's back to normal in 2019 without any controversy, then trade him for more value then. Holding on to him is not agreeing with what he allegedly did, it's holding on to an asset worth millions. Corporate ownership sucks.

Oh should be the closer, but Tepera will get his chance to blow some games before Clippard eventually takes the spot. Honestly, giving the closer spot to one of Oh or Clippard works for me because saves = trade value. Oh has a team option for next year so it won't matter for him, but if Clippard flukes his way to an ERA in the 2's and has 10+ saves on top of that, then maybe you can move him for something useful.

True but Pillar is still here.

I don't think Rogers would force the Jays to trade Osuna unless it was Ray Rice part 2. Chances are if it's 50 game suspension worthy and he's not in serious trouble, then he will serve his suspension, cry on camera to make the SJWs happy, and go back to pitching normally. If it's really, really bad for optics (ex. he beat the crap out of her), then he's a douche and not sure what the Jays would do then.

"highly volatile". Now it makes sense.

If you breathe next to a woman, Manfred gives you a mandatory 40 games, so who knows. I don't even think Chapman was arrested or found guilty (correct me if I'm wrong). Osuna might be in deep doo doo.

Damn tough break for Pearson. Hope it's not serious. His arm was always a concern even before this.

I thought Biggio was the tagalong buddy of Vlad and Bo, but he's raking this year. Would be awesome if he's turned into a real prospect now, especially with 2b being an issue again at the big league level. Now we just need Clemens to turn into something so the entire infield can be son's of big leaguers in 2019/20.

I'm hoping Shapiro can find a way to hold off until then. There will be public pressure and possibly ownership involvement to call him up sooner (Rogers may not know baseball but when they see ticket sales plummet next winter they might want the team to do something stupid). If the Yankees are holding Torres back to gain an extra year (THE YANKEES!), then do the same for Vlad. Don't care about the optics. The moment he hits the open market he can go anywhere he wants to, and the Jays have to maximize every year they have with him. If he signs a 10 year extension, then all bets are off. Call him up tomorrow in that case.

When the Jays call him up, I don't think he's going back down. In other words, if they call him up in Sept, it's probably to prep him to start at 3b from opening day 2019 onwards. But by Sept, he would have had AA and AAA experience at 3b everyday, rather than a month in AA and then thrust into the bigs to DH most nights. The service time issue is only relevant if they are open to keeping him down until May of next year. Like I said, that would be my choice. It's unfair to the player but top orgs are doing the same thing so you either adapt or die. However, I don't think they will keep Vlad from the bigs for that long. So Sept + 2019 starting gig avoids super 2 issues and gives him enough minor league AB's to justify the call up.

Vlad would have to be put on the 40 man to be a Sept call up so his option clock would start earlier (which would mean something if he were to start the following year in the minors). The point others are making is if the Jays don't call him up now then there's no sense calling him up in September either since it wouldn't add any additional years of control. What they are missing is that calling him up after a month in AA for a 2nd wild card run (which the Jays could realistically win without him) is stupid. Calling him up in September with the intention of having him take over 3B full time in 2019, which it wouldn't be my first choice, would at least have some logic behind it.

Jays should have traded Sanchez the moment he hired Boras. After 2016 his value would have been unreal. Missed chance.

Torres could have started at 2B to begin 2018. Instead they signed Neil Walker. Then when injuries hit they still waited to call Torres up. I realize he was hurt in 2017, but he was ready to go in 2018. They could have easily put him at 2b with Andujar at 3b but decided to go with vets at both spots instead. Injuries changed the timeline.

What I want to happen: call him up May 2019 and get the extra year of control. What I am okay with happening: September call up/start in 2019 (only because what I want to happen probably isn't realistic with this ownership group). What I don't want to happen: What you are suggesting. If I was convinced that Rogers would stay away from baseball decisions and Vlad could stay in the minors until next year at this time, I'd be all for it. Since I don't think that will happen, and they will need to sell tickets for 2019, I'm going with the compromise of calling him up in Sept preparing for starting him in 2019. Calling him up now is insane.

Honestly I am ok with that if it happens. I'd actually prefer it. One extra year of Vlad in his mid-20's would have insane value. I just don't think it will happen. He's too good and Rogers cares too much about optics and marketing. Lose JD, hype up Vlad for off season ticket sales. That's the way they operate.

He’d probably have a higher WAR as a reliever than a hitter. Give it a shot. Why not. We are stuck with his overpaid ass anyway.

By next year Vlad would have already had experience in AA and AAA (assuming they keep him down all year or until Sept this year). Right now he has a month of AA under his belt. By the start of next season he will have ravaged through the upper minors over a full season already. Totally different scenario. No one is saying not to call him up in 2019. He's too good and it won't look right (optics) to hold him back until May 2019 when we will be running out Travis, Tulo, Diaz, Solarte, etc, in the infield next year. He should be starting 3b in 2019. But calling him up after a month in AA for a better shot at a 2nd wild card in 2018? When they are having enough problems finding playing time for their existing talent when everyone is healthy? Pass. Do what the Yankees did with Judge/Sanchez. If the Jays sell at the deadline (i.e. move JD), then consider calling Vlad up then to play 3b for a month or two so he has big league reps before 2019. If the Jays are in it, then chances are they won't be moving anyone from the big league roster, so the log jam that currently exists will still be there. In that case, save whatever days you can from his service clock and buy some vets at the deadline as upgrades. Or if by Aug/Sept he looks like a clear upgrade then call him up then. But now is way too soon.

Brian Cashman, one of the smartest GM's in the game, did the EXACT opposite of what you are suggesting the Jays do when he was in a similar position (a WC at best team with ~82-85 win projection). He had a hole at 2B this season, a year which they plan on winning a WS, and still waited a month to call up Torres. ANd he's the GM of the f'n Yankees, who should have no issues paying their talent, while we are the Blue Jays, a team owned by a corporate entity who could decide to slash payroll in a heartbeat if they wanted to. I have no problem following Cashman's lead, and I hope Shapiro doesn't value a 2nd WC berth (one extra game on the road against Severino or Sale) to be worth messing up potentially millions upon millions $ of value down the road.

Judge got a cup of coffee in the bigs in 2016 after the Yankees traded Beltran and right field was open. Since Beltran wouldn't be there in 2017, RF was Judge's. Sanchez was called up around the same time and split between C and DH for the rest of '16, and then the Yanks traded McCann to open up the full time catching spot in 2017. In both cases, the Yankees were in the exact same spot as the Jays are now; a WC contender with no chance at contending for the division in 2016. So they waited until they essentially gave up and then called them up. If Vladdy is killing AA/AAA and the Jays are out of it in August/September, then I can see the logic in bringing him up there since he'd be starting 3B in 2019 in that scenario and he could use some reps in the bigs before a full time gig the following year. But now? Way too soon. Maybe waiting until May 2019 to call him up is too long (even though it would benefit the team), but calling him up now seems like a waste. There are more bodies than they know what to do with already, and a MVP candidate playing the position you want Vlad to play everyday.

No way we have a shot without Donaldson. He pretty much has to be the 2015-17 version for the rest of this season for the Jays to have a chance. How many wins does 19 year old Vlad add? If I was sure he'd add 3-4 wins, then sure, bring him up. He's a phenom, so he could come in and immediately wreck s***, but not too many 19 year olds have done that. Chances are he'll be developing in the bigs, and while a developing 19 year old Vlad is likely way better than Morales, is it worth the lost value later? That's the main question. We will be competing for the 2nd WC for many years, but hopefully with a much younger team with a lot more upside. No issues with starting Vlad at 3B in 2019 when JD is gone. But now? Seems like a PR move more than a move that makes baseball sense. When great GM's like Cashman, Epstein, etc, are manipulating the system to gain more service, what makes the Jays situation any different?