glory

Being a dbag isn't as much of an issue when you're actually good, have a strong work ethic and a desire to win. JD was a dbag too. So was Jose. Puig, a guy you want the Jays to sign has that reputation. The difference is those guys are just cocky, self absorbed, and play with a style that doesn't mesh with the 'good old boy' style that Grichuk grew up with. It doesn't mean they are bad teammates or bad to have around. Some times players are bad to have around, but there's no evidence to prove that with Stroman. When Grichuk publicly mocked bat flips on the same day Anderson did one, he joined the elite high character fraternity of MadBum, Brian McCann, Sam Dyson, Goose Gossage, etc, of guys who want players to put their head down and run the bases. I'd sooner weed those types of players out of the game than support them. It's not even a race thing as young white guys are bat flipping now. No young player is going to listen to Grichuk. On the flip side, if Stro were still here, my guess is a lot of the young players would identify with him and his work ethic.

Stroman came back from a torn ACL in about 5 months and helped the team get to the playoffs and advance as far as they did. Young players have said good things about him, and he's helped teammates on and off the field (ex. Sanchez before his 2016 breakout season). Just because he's self absorbed, it doesn't mean he's a bad teammate. It just means that he'll rub people the wrong way some times as some prefer their athletes to be humble and silent. He's neither of those things. I guarantee if you ask a group of Gen Z and young millennial players (of any race) who they would identify with more, I'd bet the answer for the great majority of that group would be Stroman and it wouldn't be close. We'll see what happens when Grichuk as the old man of the group tells everyone to run the bases and put their heads down, while everyone ignores him and gravitates to Bichette and Guerrero.

Grichuk was done to me the moment he conveniently made a post about how evil bat flips are on the same day Tim Anderson did a bat flip against the Royals, but wouldn't admit he was talking about Anderson when confronted on it. Stroman gets way too much flack here. He has a strong personality and will rub people the wrong way, but he's exactly the type of player you would want on a team. Saved our asses in Game 5 against Texas, pitched a hell of a WC game, and as mentioned actually gave a s*** when the team was openly tanking. I'll take his side if the opposite side is Grichuk every single time.

Yeah I would think Shaw is the one who made it easier to push Vlad to 1B/DH. If Shaw sits out, then we're probably stuck watching Drury/Panik at 3B all season.

I have no doubt Vlad wants to be a great player. I just don't think being in his best shape is high on his priority list. He's still young enough to change his ways if a light bulb goes off in his head in the next few years, but that becomes less and less likely as he gets more pro years under his belt and we see no significant change.

I think you are responding to me but directing your post to others because I've never "fat shamed" Vlad. I'm calling it what it is. How many times do you see a pro athlete have this much issues with weight at a young age suddenly turn it around from a conditioning standpoint, especially in baseball? If anything, it's probably going to get worse as he ages both due to genetics and effort. No one is expecting him to come to camp looking like Mike Trout, but you can have his body type and still make the best out of it. He's not there and has shown very little indication that he'll get there. Doesn't mean he won't have a great career. If anything, moving him to 1B/DH is probably going to make him better sooner, but let's not act like his weight isn't going to be a long term issue. He's already had injury issues the past couple of years. It's something to keep an eye on.

The Jays targeted Moose in the off season and ended up with Moose lite in Shaw. They were definitely planning this in the background and it probably would have happened mid season 2020 had the season started as normal. I like it. Vlad clearly doesn't care about his conditioning or weight. Put him at 1B/DH and let him mash for as long as his body will hold up. Removing the stress of playing a demanding defensive position will probably help his bat.

Draft Martin, move Vlad to 1B. Man things are looking bright right now. Improves the team instantly without a single change to the roster.

The Jays are a perfect spot for draft picks. Super young team on the rise, pay minor leaguers more than most (all?), and we have recent history to show that once there’s a winner on the field the atmosphere is amazing (thank you Joey Bats). Plus Shapiro now has a history of successfully bringing Boras clients to Toronto. When you look at the top 5, Martin is probably relieved he wasn’t picked anywhere else, other than Miami (where the team sucks but a young millionaire would enjoy it).

Get your GIF's ready.

That's my point. Those trades weren't bad, just not very consequential, which is why I don't really look at them. I was talking specifically about the bigger named players (JD, Osuna, Happ, Stroman, etc). My point was you could make an argument that had the timing been different, the returns could have been substantially better. Again, it's tough to prove that without knowing what was offered, but I don't think anyone could be happy with Merryweather, Perez, Paulino, Drury, McKinney, etc, as the returns for the remnants of the playoff teams. SWR/Kay is a different story. I don't think I'm being hard on Shatkins. Like I said I think overall they've done really well. But if you want to pick a weak spot for them during their tenure, what I mentioned has been it.

Out of those moves, the one they did great on was Liriano because they got 2 months of someone who helped them get to the playoffs and two prospects (one was a bust, the other looks like a decent backup catcher who will provide some value). I don't disagree that the others were good moves, but in the grand scheme of things those players are probably not on the next contending Jays team (at least not prominent parts of it) so I don't really put as much weight on those deals as I would for some of the vets discussed previously. Although, Thornton stealing some of Buchholz's repertoire and seeing good results in September has me somewhat intrigued about him, and Teoscar's exit velo + improved walk rate is encouraging. There's still time for those trades to go from "solid" to great.

They traded him while he was serving a suspension for domestic violence. That's the definition of bad timing. I wasn't blaming Shatkins, but bad timing is bad timing. Did they get a good return considering the circumstances? Yes. I thought Paulino had potential (where the F is he now?) and Perez was a lotto ticket type of prospect, but they could have done way better than that in a normal situation for an elite reliever with 2.5 years of control left. Not all bad timing was their fault. Osuna was out of their control. JD was within their control prior to 2018, not so much during 2018. Happ was a bad trade, but 2 months of a mid rotation starter in his mid 30's probably wasn't going to be that valuable a piece even if his last couple of starts before the trade were better (the time to trade him was probably trade deadline 2017 for optimal return in hindsight). Giles obviously got hurt before they could trade him. Sanchez became a bust after 2016 so even getting Fisher was probably a miracle. The one trade they got absolutely right in timing and return was Stroman. Everything else has been a mixed bag. The good news is none of their "bad" moves have been significant, so they hedged their bets well enough while developing the farm system to get us to where we are now. Like I said, they came into a situation with a one year window, and ownership wanted to extend that window beyond its shelf life because the team was a money train in 2015-16. It wasn't the easiest situation to navigate through, but I'm fine with the end result, even if certain things could have been done differently.

I'd say they have been excellent in terms of the farm system (drafting, international signings), but the one knock on them has been MLB transactions. Those have been a mixed bag, made worse by some bad timing with trades (JD, Osuna, Happ). I guess you could argue had they started the rebuild during the 2017 trade deadline or prior to the 2018 season rather than at the 2018 trade deadline that maybe there would be some better young pieces in the pipeline to go along with the existing top farm system, but hard to say without knowing what exactly they turned down in 2017-18. Considering the situation they inherited, an old playoff team with essentially a one year window, I'd say they did pretty well all things considered. It's much easier to acquire vets in free agency/trade in today's market than it is to develop stars, and the Jays have the potential to develop some stars in the next few years, as early as 2020 if the season starts/concludes.

And I believe Farrell is the 3rd scouting director to oversee a draft since Shapiro was hired (Parker -> Sanders -> Farrell). It hasn't seemed to hurt them in terms of quality of drafts, which is great, although a special thanks to the Orioles for gifting Martin to us. Between the drafting and international scouting over the last few years, the Jays are set up very nicely.

Shatkins continues to kill it in drafts.

That's good news. I think Vancouver would kill it as a MLB franchise. Put a good team on the field, and that place would be 2015-16 Toronto when the Jays were hot.

Ideally, add two teams to the league, and relocate the Rays anywhere else. If getting a 2nd Canadian team, I think Vancouver sounds more appealing than Montreal, but not sure if MLB has ever considered Vancouver. That market seems a lot more baseball friendly than Montreal's.

Expansion is inevitable.

I can buy Tellez as a league average MLB hitter, but no way on McKinney. Tellez at least has some friendly statcast numbers. McKinney does nothing well.

Agreed. The current format + unbalanced schedule has been unfair for years. This year it seems more ridiculous because while they don't have a choice other than to have the teams closest to each other in region play each other, the fact remains that the Jays and the White Sox are going to fight for the same WC spot despite having completely different schedules. It's unfair in a normal situation, but in this situation it's amplified. The only way the unbalanced approach would make sense is if they added 2 expansion teams, went back to 2 divisions per league, and eliminated interleague play. Then you can have a schedule that trends towards playing your own division more often, but without making schedules for teams fighting for the same playoff spots be so different in difficulty.

Maybe "very little chance" is premature considering we don't know the entire list of who is sitting out yet, and a 60 game season means a hot start by a .500ish team (which is where the Jays probably fall talent wise in 2020) can put them right in the thick of it. Plus "spring training/summer camp" is a joke leading up to the season, so who knows how players will even perform if there is a season. I just see the Jays as more of a 2021-22 team, and the new 2020 schedule is not in our favor. If there was expanded playoffs like there should have been, then it would have been way more fun.

This wouldn't be the worst outcome at this rate. The Jays have very little chance of making the playoffs without an expanded format, it's only 60 games, and Rob Manfred overseeing health/safety for a major sport during a pandemic sounds like a really, really bad idea. We are seeing that in execution already, and it hasn't even been a week. Only issue of a lost season from a Jays standpoint is we would lose a year of Vlad and Biggio if no season is played or season is cut short. But whatever, can't worry about what we can't control. I want baseball back as much as anyone, but it doesn't sound all that promising right now.