Tuco

+/- is the worst stat ever

Dude thats been Colborne's MO going back to when he played with Camrose of the AJHL. He was always seen as a big guy with soft hands and good skill but played extremely soft and regulary didnt really engage and was a onlooker. This is pretty much what I saw from him in the AHL with the Marlies, his little stint last year and also this past training camp. Didnt really use his body and played passively and thats really concerning considering he was basically playing for his nhl future with the club. I can fully get behind the idea of having a guy like Broll who can skate, has some alright hands and takes the body playing over someone like Orr or McLaren. I'm one of the people who think fighting as a hole is useless and the sport would be better off just banishing it all together but until it goes away there will always be a place for goons like it or not. I dont think its all that far fetched to think both Bozak and Bolland will give you average performance and I'm not a fan of either guy. Bollands lack of speed and the fact he sucks at faceoffs really worries me but he still should be a effective 3rd line center that gives you around 15 goals/15 assists while playing decent D and giving you PK minutes. See now this is where I have some issues with the analytics crew. So you say McLement is "brutal" 5 on 5 but I dont really see it. I see a guy whos solid defensively, a great backchecker, is strong positionally, doesnt turn the puck over and can skate really well for a 4th line guy. Obviously his Corsi, fenwick etc say hes not good 5 vs 5 and doesnt drive puck possesion but when I watch the guy play hes defenitely not a detriment at even strength especially for a guy whos playing a checking line role many times with 2 other scrubs. The Leafs have depth on the roster at C whether thats "good depth" or just depth can be argued. Like I said previously finding bottom 6 C's arent exactly hard as teams are always willing to deal these guys mid season for mid round draft picks. I actually like Greg McKegg better then Colborne and in limited action he prolly played as well this training camp as Colborne did. I'm with you in the sense I would rather have a guy like Thornton or Boll who can play a little I'm just saying that these guys bring more to the table then meets the eye and its not just about preventing things like the Scott fiasco (by the way Mcsorley said today on radio that if Orr was dressed theres no way Scott goes after Kessel). From what I experianced having fighters in your lineup allows the smaller more finesse players to play with more confidence because they know they always have someone looking out for them and these guys are usually always the best in the dressing room. If I was going up against a tough team in a tough barn it felt much better to have some protection and a player who was going to have your back no matter what. This stuff will never show up on a stat sheet but I gurantee if you go talk to guys like Kessel or Kadri they will tell you they love having guys like Orr or McLaren on there team because it makes there lives easier. You can scoff at that bit if you like but mostly anyone thats played the game at a high level will agree with it. I agree with you that having a "skilled" fighter who can skate is great I just dont agree with the notion that having a guy like Orr on your roster is totally useless.

Even if you want to argue his value on the 4th line vs that of ORR/McLaren theres many guys that can fill that role that outplayed Colborne in training camp (Broll, Leivo, Bodie). Colborne wasnt a guy that had a fantastic camp and you needed to find a spot for. He was a guy that has basically been underhwhelming since he was aquired and they decided to trade him for a 4th rounder and shed his salary rather then losing him to waivers. The Leafs now have something like 3 4th rounders and those things became regularly trade bait come trade deadline. If Colborne had come out and had a stellar camp and forced the teams hand then things would have been different but it sounds like they basically just gave up on the guy. Seems like a guy who just plays with no fire or intensity and thats something this staff cant get behind. If one of Kadri, Bozak or Bolland get injured you just bump up McLement. If one of the top 2 C's get injured just bump up Bolland. Finding a C that can play 4th line minutes isnt that hard and theres tons of these guys all around the NHL that can be had for scraps. The Leafs lack that star power down the middle but they actually have pretty good depth at the position. Not many teams can say they have 4 decent C's and McLement is one of the best 4th line C's in the league. I dont have nearly as much of a issue with play style as you do. As a guy who played competitive hockey his whole life and was on the smaller side I think goons or designated fighters bring more value to a team then some would imagine but thats always up for debate.

What do I think went wrong? I think the management and everyone involved with this franchise really doesnt have a clue with what there doing. I bet we could sign Choo, Garza and upgrade at catcher and this team would still play god awful baseball and somehow underachieve. Bad organization is bad.

With Liles he was a much more effective player last season before he got concussed. The bigtime mistake was giving the guy a new contract when he hadnt yet returned from a head injury to prove he was the same player.

So you want to play Colborne 5 minutes a game similar to what Orr or McLaren got? Colborne is a center. He wasnt better then any of Kadri, Bozak, Bolland or McLement. Thus he either needed to be sent down (which he couldnt without being exposed to waivers, which he would have gotten claimed) or traded for a draft pick/prospect in which you could shed his 600,000 K. I dont see the big deal over this. Colborne pretty much sucked both in the AHL and when he was given oppurtunity with the big club and hes now 23 and doesnt look to be getting any better.

If Colborne had even a respectable training camp they might have but he was pretty brutal until last nights game. Just seems like a guy who really doesnt do one thing all that well and the worst part is he plays with almost no fire. If this was one of there better prospects I would have been more upset but I've never been high on Colborne.

Well what did you want them to do? They couldnt send him down to the marlies because hes out of options and would be exposed to waivers and he clearly didnt do enough to make the team. I'm sure in a perfect world they would have liked to keep him and send him back to the minors but that just wasnt viable. They dealt him off for what seems like a fair price for a older struggling prospect and they also shed like 600,000 off there cap. Just a MEH move all around. Nothing really to get all worked up about.

Colborne sucks. A 4th rounder seems pretty fair for whats looking to be a busted prospect.

He wont. He'll just talk about this seasons injuries and how we need to improve the pitching.

Granberg looked awful at the rookie tournament.

I agree we should keep Rasmus. I personally think we should be looking to deal both Bautista and Jannsen for a handfull of young MLB ready youngsters.

Franson + Raymond + Ranger for only 4 million combined. Theres a very realistic chance those guys give you about 8-9 million worth of production.

Franson signs 1 year deal worth 2 mil

One thing we can look forward too is that for the first time in forever we should have some nice starting pitching depth next season. I also dont think theres any excuse for us not to be major players for Tanaka and Abreu.

Theres no chance Bautista will ever play 3rd base again in any scenario. His body would hold up about 10 games at that position.

I wouldnt trade Franson unless were getting back some sweetheart deal. Not only is he a youngish effective player but hes the only RH blueliner we currently have and the prospect pool is loaded with left shots like Rielly, Finn, Percy etc. Having a D core of 6 left handed shooters is a dangerous game to play with so many guys having to play their offside.

I actually really like this Leafs lineup for the first time in a billion years. This is my lineup although I have the feeling they will send Rielly down and somehow keep both Orr and McLaren in the lineup and Fraser in the top 6. JVR - Bozak - Kessel Lupul - Kadri - Clarkson Raymond - Bolland - Kulemin McLaren - McClement - Colbourne Gunnarson - Phaneuf Gardiner - Franson Rielly - Ranger Bernier Reimer Lots of depth. Lots of team speed especially on D and 2 quality goalies. I really think Paul Ranger will be the suprise of this season.

Any spots open still?

Dudes power is seriously lacking. He looks like a 20 HR guy that maybe max's out at 25 a few times which is alright but nowhere near what many thought he would turn into. I personally thought he was a future .300 hitter after his innitial stint but he just doesnt make enough consistant hard contact for my liking. Will be a good player but doesnt look like hes gonna be the future stud many of us hoped.

Haha good luck with that. It all sounds great in theory but good luck convincing a newly aquired 20 million dollar a year player to move off a position like SS especially when hes the much more established player. Reyes would be having none of that.

He played center more then anyone on the team last season. I think he took something like 400 more faceoffs then the 2nd ranked guy.

Bozak is a center.

Great play by Goins there to end the game

This is one of my biggest beefs with AA. When he first got here he talked about how they would be so much more active in international happenings and then he cant even sign/aquire one of the guys you mentioned.