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Just the way some people are Vik. I was like that when Riccardi was GM until he changed his drafting strategy. Sure i post negative s*** but I mostly try to look at the good AA has done . He has drafted more and better talent than most organizations and hell he has traded more talent than the Yankees have drafted in the last few years IMO. This farm has some high upside talent in spite of us not drafting higher than 10th. The Rays farm system isn't very good but God the Love for them on this board is disgusting.

Here is BA,s write up on the showcase Yoan Moncada faced only a batting practice pitcher at his showcase in Guatemala on Wednesday, but the young Cuban phenom gave scouts a glimpse at his tools and showed that he’s kept his strength and conditioning on point since leaving the island. The Red Sox, who had a strong presence at Rusney Castillo’s first showcase before they signed him to a $72.5 million deal, had a big group in town, led by vice president of player personnel Allard Baird. So did the Braves, who had special assistants Roy Clark and Gordon Blakeley there, and the Giants, led by assistant general manager John Barr. The Yankees, Cubs, Tigers, Rays and Padres were among the other clubs that scouts in attendance felt had a significant showing at the event. In all, there were around 80-100 scouts there to see Moncada, including several top-level evaluators. “There was about 1,000 years of experience in there,” said one scout. “It was pretty interesting.” A 19-year-old switch-hitter listed at 6 feet, 210 pounds while he was in Cuba, Moncada took several rounds of batting practice from both sides of the plate, performing much better from the left side, consistent with what scouts who have followed him over the years have said. He showed excellent bat speed and plus raw power, though after a long day and a lot of swings so scouts could see him from both sides of the plate, he did seem to wear down. He showed his plus speed by running the 60-yard dash in around 6.6 seconds, and he took groundballs at shortstop, second and third base. In Cuba’s 18U national league in 2012, Moncada played shortstop, though that’s mostly because he was the best athlete on the field. At junior national tournaments, Moncada has played third and second, and he’s been primarily a second baseman for Cienfuegos during his two seasons in Serie Nacional. Scouts said Moncada looked uncomfortable at shortstop, which they expected, but looked more natural at third and second, the positions he’s most likely to play in pro ball, although he has plenty of speed to go to the outfield if a team sees him as a fit there. He has at least a plus arm, with some scouts giving it a 70 grade. For scouts who had never seen Moncada before, it was a chance to get a first-hand look at what all the fuss has been about, a better sense for his raw tools and the way his swing worked from both sides, at least in BP. For those who have spent three years following him, the showcase was just a routine checkup. “You were looking at the menu,” said another scout. “Now it’s just up to whether you want to order.” The next step for Moncada isn’t known yet. He’s in Guatemala, which makes things a little more difficult, but most Cuban players go through private workouts for interested clubs. Some believe he could come to the United States for more showcases. Moncada still has to obtain a specific unblocking license from the Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) of the U.S. Department of the Treasury, and Major League Baseball has yet to declare him a free agent. Once eligible, he will be subject to the bonus pools, though teams will certainly have to break their pool by a wide margin to get him signed. Since players subject to the bonus pools are not allowed to sign a major league contract, a team will have to put all the money into Moncada’s signing bonus, then essentially pay double that amount as a 100 percent tax on their pool overage.

And I might add , A top ten farm system that if they dealt the high value non core talent would jump even higher.

I posted most of the Moncada stuff in the around baseball thread but here is a little from a Badler chat Prison Mike (Scranton, PA): Can you tell us more about Yoan Moncada?! How's he look?!?! I want to know! Ben Badler: I’ve seen him play before and I’ve seen what he looks like since he’s been in Guatemala, though not on the field there. We’re going to have reports on how today’s showcase went for him, but I know he’s in terrific shape, and I’ve yet to hear anything but high praise for him. We’ve all known it for a few years now, but this guy is the real deal.

From Yesterday,s Tigers top ten chat. Jake (Lake Central): Let's be honest, is this a bottom-five overall list? Seems to lack any true impact players and "star" power. Ben Badler: Having combed through a bunch of our Top 30s already, it’s not the worst farm system in the game, but it’s definitely going to rank toward the back end of our organizational rankings. Steven Moya and Derek Hill both have exciting tools and high-risk profiles, Devon Travis is a widely underappreciated player by people who underrate good hitters, but you’re right, there just isn’t a ton of high-level, impact talent that most organizations have at the top of their system. @Jaypers413 (IL): Thanks for the chat, Ben. Had Adames, Thompson and Knebel remained with the organization, about where would you have ranked them? In addition, do you envision any of your present top 10 guys making BA's top 100 list? Ben Badler: Adames, Thompson and Travis would have been 1-2-3 in some order, and they’re all Top 100 candidates. Thompson has a chance to be a mid-rotation starter, and while there’s a wide mixture of opinions on scouts about Adames from an above-average everyday shortstop to a utility man, there’s exciting upside with him. Moya’s a divisive player—scouts either think he’s going to hit 30 home runs in the middle of the lineup, or that he won’t ever get his swing and approach under control enough to be an everyday guy. I don’t think he will make the Top 100, but I do believe he’ll be on some of our internal lists when we get together to discuss our final rankings. Michael (Baltimore): Even with greater risk of a MLB career, I still thought Moya and Hill would rank over Travis. Is the risk that great, considering Travis has one good tool (Hitting)? Ben Badler: Hitting is the most important thing a player can do, and it’s also the most challenging thing for scouts to evaluate. With Moya, clearly the tools are louder. Way bigger raw power, stronger arm and comparable speed despite a massive size difference. If everything goes perfectly for both players, Moya is the better player. But hitting trumps everything, the risk with Moya is big, and there’s more upside with Travis than people generally give him credit for having. If you’re a scout dropping in to see Travis for a few games in a series, you’re not going to see him to anything flashy, but he’s the type of player you appreciate the more you see him, because he’s consistently barreling up the ball and has become one of the best hitters in the minors, while playing a position in the middle of the diamond. That doesn’t mean he’s a superstar just because he’s the No. 1 prospect in this system. There’s a good chance he ends up turning into a steady player along the lines of Brock Holt, Scott Hairston, someone like that. But players who are just talented hitters without other “exciting” tools tend to be undervalued, then we look up and see guys like Jose Altuve, Matt Carpenter, Allen Craig or Josh Harrison becoming success stories in the big leagues. You can definitely find scouts that take Moya over Travis, but I’ll put my money on Travis’ bat.

Badler,s take on the deal. Guess I'm wrong mid top ten THE DEAL The Tigers and Blue Jays executed a trade that unloaded a surplus and filled a need for both teams, with Detroit sending Double-A second baseman Devon Travis to Toronto for center fielder Anthony Gose. It’s a great move for the Blue Jays, who not only add a player who could eventually help fill a significant weakness for the team at second base in 2015, but also doesn’t subtract from the major league club, since Gose’s absence will open the door for rising prospect Dalton Pompey to step in to the center field job. While Travis was the Tigers’ No. 1 prospect, that title comes with the caveat that it’s the top player in a thin farm system. The Tigers had experimented with Travis in center field before he went down with core muscle surgery that wiped out his scheduled Arizona Fall League stint, but given the presence of Ian Kinsler at second base, there wasn’t a clear path to Detroit for Travis, who was an obvious trade chip. 3ds_bluejays80 BLUE JAYS ACQUIRE Devon Travis, 2b Age: 23 Hitting is the most challenging component for scouts to evaluate, but it’s also the most important thing for any position prospect to be able to do, and it’s the area where Travis excels. With a quick, simple stroke, Travis has excellent plate coverage and routinely barrels up balls for hard contact. He’s small but has a strong, compact frame, generating surprising exit speed off the bat for his size. Travis missed six weeks early in the season with an oblique injury, and the effects carried over into May, but from June on he batted .312/.379/.481. Travis’ tools aren’t flashy, but scouts come to appreciate him the more they see him because of his ability to hit, manage the strike zone and play smart, fundamentally sound baseball in all areas of the game. He can turn in times a tick slower out of the box, but he’s an average runner underway who moves well going first to third, with sharp instincts that make him an efficient basestealer. He’s an adequate defender at second base who makes the routine plays and is smooth on the double play pivot. The surgery Travis had in September cut his offseason short, but the Tigers expected him to be fully ready at the beginning of spring training. The next logical step for Travis would be Triple-A, but the Blue Jays could push him more aggressively, and he’s likely to make his major league debut at some point in 2015. In a more prospect-laden Blue Jays farm system, Travis won’t stand out quite as much, sliding into the mid-range of their Top 10. Nobody’s projecting a perennial all-star, but if Travis can be a steady, league-average player while the Blue Jays have him under cost control for six seasons, the trade will be a win for them.

I never said he is nothing . My fault I should have said Posters think because he was the Tigers #1 prospect he must be something special. Yes he COULD be a league average guy. I wanted to point out to the fappers that he is the Tigers #1 guy because their system is one or the worst in baseball. Where would he rank in Toronto,s top ten . Near the bottom but still in the top ten.

It's a trade for needs. Tigers need a CF and the Jays need a 2nd baseman. I suspect Gose will put up more WAR than Travis over the next 5 years. Posters think because he is the Tigers #1 prospect he must be something . He isn't ! Tigers have one of the worst systems in baseball right down there with the Angels. I suspect this means we aren't getting a Cuban infielder this winter.

What is also interesting about Moncada is he left legally on a Cuban passport. First one, wonder if this will start the landslide

They wrote this before his showcase. Badler wrote this in BA after the angels signed Baldoquin Perhaps, though, the Angels have their sights set on a bigger target: Cuban infielder Yoan Moncada. As talented as the Angels are at the major league level, their farm system is lacking. If it’s not the worst in baseball, it’s certainly near the bottom of the pack. Signing the 19-year-old Moncada would give the Angels a young, potential franchise player in the minors to eventually boost a roster that leans toward older players, especially in the infield. There’s a high level of excitement among scouts about the 2015 international signing class, but there’s no 16-year-old player in Latin America who is close to Moncada. If Moncada were subject to the 2015 draft, he would be the favorite to be the No. 1 overall pick. The top player on Baseball America’s 2015 draft board is Florida high school shortstop Brendan Rodgers, a tremendous prospect who combines good tools with a high baseball IQ. Moncada won’t play shortstop, but he could play just about anywhere else on the field and his tools across the board are spectacular. So if the Angels are willing to cut a deal in the neighborhood of $8 million for Baldoquin, what type of value would they place on Moncada? Or, for that matter, 21-year-old second baseman Andy Ibanez, the youngest player on Cuba’s 2013 World Baseball Classic team and another pool-eligible player? Living near Anaheim could also be a draw for Moncada, who’s believed to have family near the area. The interest level among teams is huge, and with Moncada’s ability to play third base or second, the speed for center field and the offensive upside to go to an outfield corner if that’s where he fits best on a team, he would seemingly be a fit for just about any organization.

A blurb on Moncada who had his showcase today . Two general managers and two other officials familiar with Moncada and Cuban baseball this week all agreed on the expected price once he hits the market: between $30 million and $40 million. While that’s close to what the similarly aged Puig ($42 million) and the Cubs' Jorge Soler ($30 million) received, the circumstances for Moncada are entirely different than when Puig and Soler signed in 2012. Under baseball’s current collective-bargaining agreement, international free agents under 23 years old with fewer than five years’ experience in a professional league fall under the purview of MLB’s international bonus pool. Meaning for every dollar a team goes beyond its allotted budget to sign international amateurs – the highest this season is Houston with $4.94 million – it must pay a 100 percent tax. On top of that, if a team goes 15 percent beyond its pool, it cannot spend more than $300,000 on an international amateur for the next two signing periods. The upshot: If a team does indeed give Moncada a $30 million deal, it will cost somewhere in the neighborhood of $60 million. Should the bidding jump to $40 million, Moncada would cost $80 million – more than Abreu, Rusney Castillo, Puig, Cespedes, Soler, Alexander Guerrero, Erisbel Arruebarrena or any of the other Cuban defectors to this point. Ben Badler after his Tigers prospect chat said he was phoning Guatemala for info so he might have something tomorrow at BA. All 30 teams expected to be at the showcase.

What a waste of f***ing talent . Might as well of used a bullet then the girl would still be alive

Good , now we can move on past all the ******** V Mart rumors. Best hope is to go get a Cuban 2nd baseman and somehow get a decent catcher. Improve the defense and hope , hell Pray for health.

Rather keep Happ for depth and get a free agent for the bull pen . Lots to chose from. Unless of course money is the issue. Steamer projects Happ for 1.6 WAR Estrada 0.6 War I'm eating crow here but I would rather keep Happ and his new found velocity.

He loses all that value when pitch framing is included. Jays lost the most runs in baseball due to pitch framing 94 runs . Can someone provide the fangraphs link /

Agreed every deal takes two and what the hell do i know. If I'm to believe some on this forum the jays are the shittiest organization in baseball and a monkey with a computer could do a better job than AA. I will say after years of trashing JP Ricarrdi it is harder to be positive about a GM than it is to be negative . I try to look at the better things AA does rather than come on here and only post negative s*** like some Few can argue AA has drafted well.

I will add that we thought wells was not tradeable and he still netted a player.

Many ways you could go at the deadline . JB and EE signed cheap for a year and a half nets two top prospects each. I think people underestimate how much some teams will give up for a shot if they are right in the thick of things and need a bat or a pitcher. Think of Dickey in a bigger ball park. lot of those HRs are caught in LA parks. Eat 21 to 24 mil of Reyes salary and at 14 or 15 mil per year he becomes an asset.

Depends how much money you eat. we said that about Wells . Buehrle is short term , Eating some money gets a prospect . Dickey is a good fit for a big ball park team like the Angels or Dodgers. If the Jays ate 21 mil of Reyes contract do you not think at 15 mil a year Reyes is valuable?

This could also quickly turn around if the Jays are well out of it in July and they move non controllable high value vets for more core type players. I drool at the thought of what a Baustista, Encarnacion, Buehrle, Dickey and even Reyes could bring if healthy at the deadline. Yes salary might have to be eaten but the right deals could put the Jays in a Cubs type situation. I'll add that it would be the smart thing to do if not in contention but the question is would Rogers allow it.

After projected Arb. awards the Jays have the 8th highest payroll in baseball. Of the 8 , 5 made the playoffs. Only the Jays, Red Sox, and Yankees failed. Certainly the 8th highest payroll is plenty to get to October. I think it is a given Rogers forced the increase in payroll and then failed to follow thru in 2013 but we will never know if the 140 was always the max and it was AA,s failure or if he was told it would still go up after the deals. This is the year AA has no excuses. He has all the tools to construct a roster that plays in October if he has the projected 20 mil left to spend. He has a farm system that has talent to deal. I will say the one thing AA has done is sign talent. I suspect the farm barring dilution due to trades will rank in the top ten.

Navarro isn't worth anything in trade. He is a back up catcher with a decent enough bat. Those guys get paid 1.5 to 2 mil NOT 5 mil. Better odds he comes to camp in shape than we do in trading him and I sure as hell don't believe that will happen. If they sign Martin ( Highly doubtful ) Navarro becomes a replacement level DH

AA doesn't say much about contract talks so this blurb is surprising . I take this as him letting the fan base down easy so when Melky signs with another team no one will be shocked. As usual AA is talking to everyone but he always does that to get a feel for the market and doesn't mean he will sign anyone. I really wonder how much money he actually has.

This is all a moot point . The rumor that we are looking at VMart is the usual rumor agents use to pump up their client . I give the odds of us signing VMart at about .005 % AA has priorities this year Bull Pen Bull Pen MIF Outfielder catcher I can assure everyone he will run out of money long before he gets past MIF. If he even gets that far

LA has been down that road with Dionner. He got too lazy and out of shape for them. They will be the ones chasing Martin because they believe in Pitch framing and defensive runs saved. That said I don't think Martin goes back there after they cut him. I think they Jays rumor on Martin is just that! " Rumor" We have more of a chance of Navarro coming to camp in shape and I don't believe that will happen either.