leaffie

While most of the posters here were not around to live through the beginning seasons of the Jays, I was. Of all the terrible seasons, with no wins, and no name players, this is the worst that I ever remember. It is the most disappointing, after all the moves, and hype. To see all the excitement of the new fans, and old ones in the off season, to the absolutely disgusting end, when the Red Sox clinched, with Farrell and that smug look on his face, I can't think of a baseball moment I hated more than that. But there is hope for next year. The Jays can't possibly have three years in a row with the endless list of injuries. There is hope that now that Rogers has put up the money, and seen the resulting attendance figures, they will continue. But since fans have nothing else to do until next spring, I am looking for some positives for this team going forward. If anyone has some to add, please feel free. IMHO Drabek will be our surprise next year. Gose will continue to improve at the plate, and in the field. Lawrie will have a full season of great defense and production. Any more????

Maybe he should be looking for his offense somewhere else, and keep someone who will provide excellent defense to go with Lawrie and Reyes.

•Anthopoulos feels that, from a defensive standpoint, rookie Ryan Goins could be the best second baseman the Blue Jays have had since Orlando Hudson in his prime. Indeed, both UZR/150 (+40.6) and The Fielding Bible (+6 runs) rave about Goins defense in an admittedly microscopic 99-inning sample size. This was from AA's interview this morning.

He ranks third in the American League in home runs with 36. He ranks third in RBI with 102. He ranks fifth with a .925 OPS. While it may be unrealistic to think that Edwin Encarnacion will ever win the Triple Crown, especially while Miguel Cabrera is still in a major league uniform, the Toronto Blue Jays slugger could certainly take two out of three of those categories in 2014. In fact, looking ahead to 2014, Encarnacion could well be the top first baseman in the American League, if not all of baseball. Sure, Chris Davis is flirting with a .300 batting average and 50 home run season, but its hard to imagine that he'll be able to sustain a career-high 30.9 HR/FB percentage along with his low (for him) strikeout percentage of 28.8 percent. Encarnacion, on the other hand, has seen his batting average remain consistently in the .270-.280 range for three seasons now while steadily improving his BB/K rate to 1.37. While Davis seems prime for regression, Encarnacion looks to be the "safer" player in terms of a repeat 2014 season. Fantasy players, especially, should make sure his name sits near the top of all of their 2014 wish lists.

I would rather have McCaan too, but doubt he is coming to TO. Plus, they should be using that money or trades to improve the pitching.

Certainly better than JP. He is an experienced catcher, that frames pitches well, knows how to help his pitchers and has a BA of about .280 with 15 or so HR's. Won't cost as much as McCann, and won't need a long term contract.

Most would go with McCann, but I doubt the Jays would get him. A.J. Pierzinsky for me.

With his bank account, I am sure he had them lined up and taking a number.

That is the first thing that I have read that actually makes sense.

Has anyone got any answers or guesses to what exactly happened to him. I know that he should have never been called an Ace, but Ricky the pitcher seems to have just disappeared. And I don't for a minute believe it was because some girl dumped him.

The farm was a mess, is what I meant to say.

Frank Thomas was just about at the end of his career. BJ Ryan and AJ Burnett were both overpaid for the market at the time. Some GM's were shocked at the amount of contract that they got. So that leaves Molina, who the Jays should have never let go. So that is not a lot of FA signings for his tenure. Perhaps it is not true, but there have been numerous reports of FA's that have turned down the Jays. The only time that I can remember FA's lining up to come to Toronto, was after they were successful and on the verge of WS wins. Who should AA have signed last year for pitching. I mentioned Lohse in the offseason and was promptly told he would be terrible. But he has looked pretty good to me. But who else was out there on the FA market?

No it hasn't, but I think he took over such a mess with so few legitimate prospects, that when he started building the farm everyone was excited that the Jays were going to go the Tampa route. And I agree that is the way to go. But TO is such a unique situation with FA's not really wanting to sign here, and the length of time since they have even sniffed Sept baseball, that drastic measures were needed.

Yes, it is kind of his job. But you had a pitcher, that had no injury problems, no TJ surgery in his future. Had successfully pitched to a very good record for three years. You cannot project injuries, no matter who you sign. BUT I REPEAT, I DID NOT LIKE THIS TRADE.

You can't be blind to see that the direction of the team changed drastically. Alex went from making shrewd, creative moves like nabbing Olivo and turning him into a comp pick, to making two large moves that pretty much any GM in baseball could make. Why has Alex completely stopped making creative moves? It's like he's given up? " Of course not, but that is not what this discussion was about to start with. It was would AA be fired, and I said no. He has done his job, whether the "real" fans appreciate this or not. AA used and abused the sytem, and they changed it. You can't get a draft pick anymore for dumping off players at the deadline. You know this. There are now restrictions on how much you can spend on the international market, so they cut that avenue off. You and I had a similar discussion before the end of last season. I said then, that AA could not and would not let the momentum that was being built, slip away because of all the injuries in 2012. He went out and did what he always said, he used his farm and made trades. "AA sacrificed the future for the now" But the question was and always will be, when was the future? How many years before those prospects came up and made a difference. 3 years, 5 years? They were never all going to get there together, so they were used. The only teams in baseball that seem to manage to get their prospects to the majors and all doing well, is Tampa and St. Louis. You know that the odds of being drafted and having a player actually make it to the majors is about 1 in 5. So all this raving about him thrashing the farm, is tiresome. Who has he traded off, that has over achieved, except Escobar, and that is one mistake that AA needs to own. He should have never traded him, but a bunch of sanctimonious experts decided that he needed to go, including lots that posted on the old board. Yes, he traded prospects, and some that look good. But , succeeding in AA means nothing, until they prove themselves in the majors. I certainly understand the sabremetrics, I understand why they are constantly used to compare A and B. But that is not always the be all/end all of a ballplayer. I said I didn't like the Dickey trade, not from the very first word of it. But he had successfully pitched for three years, won for a team that was terrible, and won the CY. It is easy to see why AA traded for him. Who else was out there that was willing to come to TO. If this team was to move forward again, it HAD to get some pitching. This "casual" fan tag that seems to get placed on people that don't agree, or don't spend every minute studying prospects sheets is insulting. They can care about the team just as much as anyone. But maybe they don't care about winning 5 years from now. And what exactly is wrong with that? A lot of them have waited a long time, and wanted a team that had a chance. AA put that team on the field. They didn't perform for various reasons, and that is the sad situation of this year. But a GM's job is to run a successful ball club. AA has done that. He said at the time, this was a three year process, and I would suggest that he should be given his three years.

Right, and that is AA's fault how???

Because I don't agree with some posters, I am AA's cousin. Hardly. I said I didn't like the Dickey trade. But if he had come to this team, and they had all played to their capabilities and made the playoffs, there would not be this cry to fire AA. No one including you, likes every trade or acquisition, no matter who is the coach, gm or manager.

A trade to get a CY pitcher should always be a viable option. I didn't like the Dickey trade at all, but if he had won 18 games this year, this would not have been a dumbass trade.

Hindsight is always 20/20. You just said "Its funny, looking back we were all most excited about Drabek and then Taylor, and then Wallace after he was acquired. d'Arnaud was always thought of as the 3rd piece in the deal. " So opinions change. It doesn't mean that AA was 100% correct. But he wasn't wrong either. Fans loved JPA, including most on this board, who were hollering for him to be brought up. How dare Cito sit this next Johnny Bench. And if you took a poll and people were honest, there were very few last October that soured on AA.

The feeling from the posters you AGREE with felt that way . I am not saying that this is right or wrong. But the posters that disagreed were posters that apply a number to ever stat. They have every move calculated out to financial cost, prospect cost, etc. etc. But that is a small portion of the fan base. As indicated by the increase in attendance, TV ratings, cross country interest, and the constant Jays jersey that you see in every ball park they have played in, the majority of fans, do not look at this game as numbers. They don't care what it costs, and they don't care if AA sent prospects off for major league players. They want a team that FINALLY looked like it had a chance. And on paper, that team looked like it had a very good chance, and a lot of baseball experts agreed. This was not just wishful thinking on AA's part. So AA is a bumbling idiot after last off season, but he was very good before that????

AA is not getting fired this off season. Hopefully, the FO is not as fickle as most posters on this board. When he took over and started building the farm from 28th to top 5, he was wonderful. When he unloaded Wells contract, he was unbeatable. When he signed Bautista and Encarnacion to extremely team friendly contracts, everyone raved about him. The Morrow trade, another feather in his cap. Now some, didn't like his off season, where he used the farm system. Fine, but this team was building momentum until all the injuries last year, and this club could not afford to let this slip. Opportunity came along and most didn't mind the Marlins trade. And even posters that hated the thought of losing all those prospects, were excited for the season to begin. Momentum grew, tickets were bought, jerseys flew off the shelves. The Dickey trade was to be the final peg, and that one didn't work out. Partly due to the neck injury to Dickey and partly due to a natural regression when joining the AL east. But the defense was poor, the pitching was bad and we are where we are today. He did exactly what a GM is supposed to do. He attempted to put a better club on the field, than the year before. Most pundits had this team making the playoffs. And if the injuries hadn't happened, with players playing out of position, or not even on the field for half the year. If the pitchers had done their job even halfway, this season would have been a different story. And the same people that are now yelling to fire AA and Beeston, would be the ones cheering. But attendance is up, the money is pouring in. Even with this disaster, the interest is still there. AA will not be fired!!!

At first the" fire the manager" people, said that the only thing that Gibbons did right was manage his bullpen well. Now that the bullpen is struggling because of overwork, now they are saying fire him because he can't run a bullpen. He was not my choice, but this has been a season of unbelievable losses, injuries, under production, players playing out of position, and I doubt he can be blamed for any of it. I will not be surprised though, if AA isn't pressured into letting him go.

Read something yesterday that said, even though it wasn't Gibbons fault, Rogers might have something to say, just for appearance sake. Might have been Davidi.

Don't always believe what "people" tell you.

My word. Lawrie has been hitting on all cylinders since he is finally healthy. I haven't seen any of what the OP is talking about. It seems that fans of this team are never happy. If they show some attitude and swagger, they don't want that. If they show nothing, just sitting in the dugout, they don't want that either. Somewhere along the'line, the internet has turned baseball fans into experts on everything, who are never happy and do nothing but criticize. Give me some more Brett Lawries on this team, and they wouldn't be in last place.