Red Sox (Tolle) vs Blue Jays (Scherzer): 08/13/26, 3:07 PM

[Laika]

59 minutes ago, jaysblue said:

Defensively, Gimenez is a wizard, and he’s actually having an even better season in the field than he did last year. He’s already up to 2.1 WAR and should probably finish somewhere around 3 WAR. Offensively, if he ends up around .250 with 10–12 HR, 20 SB and an 80–90 wRC+, I can live with that considering everything he gives you defensively. He's a solid player and the Jays could do a lot worse at shortstop. 

The bigger issue is that the Jays simply have too many noodle bats in the lineup at the same time: Clement (98 wRC+), Lukes (96), Straw (70), Bateman (83), Kirk (95), Vladdy (97) and Springer (100).

Obviously, Kirk, Vladdy and Springer regressing this badly has hurt them tremendously. But even coming into the season, the Jays were still planning on regularly running out Gimenez, Clement and Lukes. That worked last year because they had Vladdy, Kirk, Springer, Bo and a healthy Barger producing at a high level, along with Varsho when he was healthy.

That’s why the priority this offseason has to be adding as much offense as possible, regardless of where it comes from. If Gimenez and Clement are both going to be everyday players again, you need to compensate for that elsewhere in the lineup and if the plan is also to give Bateman or Straw significant everyday ABs in CF, then yikes. At that point, adding a legitimate bat in LF becomes even more important.

This free agent crop is setting up to be a disaster for whoever plays around, for bats

The Jays would risk another Santander situation 

Jazz, Randy, B Lowe, Arraez, Happ, Grisham, Suzuki, Torres, Varsho, Ward, Springer...

 

I don't want ANY PART of that list other than short term commitments. If someone like Taylor Ward signs a pillow contract I am all over it but otherwise it's Lane Thomas and trade explorations, for me. 

Rando Arozarena is obviously good and desirable but in this climate he is probably getting paid huge. 

[Brownie19]

5 minutes ago, Laika said:

This free agent crop is setting up to be a disaster for whoever plays around, for bats

The Jays would risk another Santander situation 

Jazz, Randy, B Lowe, Arraez, Happ, Grisham, Suzuki, Torres, Varsho, Ward, Springer...

I don't want ANY PART of that list other than short term commitments. If someone like Taylor Ward signs a pillow contract I am all over it but otherwise it's Lane Thomas and trade explorations, for me. 

Rando Arozarena is obviously good and desirable but in this climate he is probably getting paid huge. 

I tend to agree. Randy or Suzuki are both pretty good fits for us in LF, but both are entering their age 32 season.  You'd love either on a 3 year deal, but there's a lot of risk in something more - and as the top 2 bats on the market, I fully expect they're going to get more - probably a lot more term.

I know there's often very little good new for the Jays, but the positions we're looking to fill are LF and maybe DH.  Those positions are often some of the easiest to fill and don't required huge doll hairs.

That said, we may also need to fill CF, and that's going to be hard and costly...(c'mon Batman - we need you to be the guy)

[max silver]

17 hours ago, Masterbather said:

Well at least we got rid of Hoffman eh? Thank goodness we don't have him as an option anymore😒

I'd happily take Nance back as well. The Jays lower leverage group is downright horrible at the moment and it's too damn bad Nance was out of options as he was a solid contributor for the club.

[Laika]

Cease, Soriano, Yesavage, Ponce, Miles, Spaghetti (options), Berrios, Bloss (am told he will get a 4th option), Bowden (will he get an option?), King, Stanifer --> ROTATION IS MOSTLY FINE, JUST NEEDS DEPTH PIECES

Varland, Rogers, Fluharty, Fisher --> BULLPEN NEEDS WORK IN OFFSEASON, TIME FOR RICKY T TO JUST RELIEVE I THINK. THIS SUCKS TO BE HONEST. 

Oka 3B, Gime SS, Clem 2B, Vlad 1B, Kirk C, Bateman CF, Lukes LF, Barger RF, Santa DH
BN - Val, Smith, McAdoo, Keys

THIS TEAM WILL SCORE NO RUNS. 
OFFENSE NEEDED - RHB PREFERABLE - OF THE OBVIOUS HOLE

Maybe it does make sense to just spend on Randy or Suzuki... 

[gruber9292]

2 hours ago, Brownie19 said:

So much anger.  The world is tough when you can't quite follow what's happening around you.

To be honest, I do tend to agree with you on this one.  Gimenez hasn't worked out the way they hoped.  I'm sure the Jays thought that as he entered his prime, he could return to a 100 wRC+ bat (or pretty close to that).  I suspect they also didn't think Horwitz would have enough pop to be much more than a 110 wRC+ bat.  At the time of the trade, I think the probabilities of that happening were pretty solid.

Sometimes things don't quite play out the way they hoped.  I'm sure they're fall back was that Gimenez's floor is quite high, based on defense and base running - which is exactly what we're seeing, as he's literally our best positional player this year.  It's not great, but it's not a complete disaster.

This shouldn't be a difficult one to evaluate.

Not at $23M annually for four years. C'mon man.. 

[gruber9292]

2 hours ago, Spanky__99 said:

I get month long bans and this clown talks like that? Nothing will happen, lmao

The difference is I don't provoke out of thin air. Take a look in the mirror man.. 

[Brownie19]

6 minutes ago, gruber9292 said:

Not at $23M annually for four years. C'mon man.. 

Based on Spotrac, the Jays have him for 5 years $92.4M, so it's like $18.5M on average.  I don't know the exactly $/WAR calc these days, but I suspect he only needs to be a 2.5 WAR player to justify that contract.

If he was a 95 wRC+ bat, he's probably a 4-5 WAR player and thus would have been providing excess value.  I suspect that Jays felt there was a 50% chance that would happen.  There's simply always a probability it doesn't happen, but even with a limp d*ck bat, he's a 3 WAR shortstop, which isn't a terrible outcome.  I get the claims that you don't pay for defense, but a slick fielding SS impacts and helps all of our pitchers too.  His base running / stolen base ability is also something the Jays have lacked for years.

Honestly, if this is your biggest complaint about Atkins, he's doing pretty good.

[jaysblue]

Teruaki Sato will likely be available this offseason. Won the 2025 Central League MVP honors with the Hanshin Tigers and is only 27. Plays third base mostly, so that would mean either Okamoto has to move to DH, or you convince Sato to play a corner OF spot, which he has earlier in his career and has played some RF a bit this season and last. Not sure how he grades out defensively at either position. 

Dodgers, Phillies, Mets, Yankees all rumoured to be in on him. 

Went to a Hanshin Tiger game last summer and wanted to get a Sato jersey, but they were mostly sold out or either had limited sizes haha. 

[jaysblue]

2 hours ago, Laika said:

Cease, Soriano, Yesavage, Ponce, Miles, Spaghetti (options), Berrios, Bloss (am told he will get a 4th option), Bowden (will he get an option?), King, Stanifer --> ROTATION IS MOSTLY FINE, JUST NEEDS DEPTH PIECES

Varland, Rogers, Fluharty, Fisher --> BULLPEN NEEDS WORK IN OFFSEASON, TIME FOR RICKY T TO JUST RELIEVE I THINK. THIS SUCKS TO BE HONEST. 

Oka 3B, Gime SS, Clem 2B, Vlad 1B, Kirk C, Bateman CF, Lukes LF, Barger RF, Santa DH
BN - Val, Smith, McAdoo, Keys

THIS TEAM WILL SCORE NO RUNS. 
OFFENSE NEEDED - RHB PREFERABLE - OF THE OBVIOUS HOLE

Maybe it does make sense to just spend on Randy or Suzuki... 

Randy probably gets a four- or five-year deal based on the season he’s having, especially since the power/speed combination is still pretty intriguing.

If you can get Suzuki or Happ on a three-year deal, though, I think that makes a lot of sense. I just wouldn’t want to go four or five years on either of them at this stage.

[jaysblue]

Some potential trade candidates before 2027:

• CJ Abrams 
• Zach Neto
• Steven Kwan
• Jarren Duran
• Trevor Larnach
• Jake McCarthy
• Oneil Cruz

Not sure the Jays would have enough to acquire Neto or Abrams, but either one would allow you to move Gimenez back to 2B and keep Ernie in that super-utility role where he can move around the diamond.

Kwan could bounce back, but he offers very little power, and this lineup already has too many guys like that. Larnach doesn’t really move the needle for me either, he’s not much different from Lukes. Duran has an intriguing power/speed combination, but he’s been a dumpster fire this season. I also don’t really trust McCarthy’s production outside of Coors.

Oneil Cruz is probably the most intriguing of that group if he can stay healthy. There’s still plenty of offensive upside there, although the defense is pretty meh.

Not sure the Twins shop Buxton. Seems like he's destined to be in Minneapolis forever. 

[gruber9292]

47 minutes ago, Brownie19 said:

Based on Spotrac, the Jays have him for 5 years $92.4M, so it's like $18.5M on average.  I don't know the exactly $/WAR calc these days, but I suspect he only needs to be a 2.5 WAR player to justify that contract.

If he was a 95 wRC+ bat, he's probably a 4-5 WAR player and thus would have been providing excess value.  I suspect that Jays felt there was a 50% chance that would happen.  There's simply always a probability it doesn't happen, but even with a limp d*ck bat, he's a 3 WAR shortstop, which isn't a terrible outcome.  I get the claims that you don't pay for defense, but a slick fielding SS impacts and helps all of our pitchers too.  His base running / stolen base ability is also something the Jays have lacked for years.

Honestly, if this is your biggest complaint about Atkins, he's doing pretty good.

My biggest problem with Ross is that he keeps changing the team narrative from slugging to contact and speed. It's obviously good to have a balance in that regard but if you're going to go the Yankees or the Rays route, then stick with one of them. Giminez was three years removed from his only decent offensive season, way too much risk in taking on that contract in hopes he rekindles that one season. Could have found a slick fielding good base running SS for under $5M (maybe even league minimum) at the time and used the money on a corner outfield bat with power, even if it's a platoon bat (preferably LHH as they play more). I'm just spit balling but wasn't Joc Pederson available around that time? 

[Brownie19]

1 hour ago, gruber9292 said:

My biggest problem with Ross is that he keeps changing the team narrative from slugging to contact and speed. It's obviously good to have a balance in that regard but if you're going to go the Yankees or the Rays route, then stick with one of them. Giminez was three years removed from his only decent offensive season, way too much risk in taking on that contract in hopes he rekindles that one season. Could have found a slick fielding good base running SS for under $5M (maybe even league minimum) at the time and used the money on a corner outfield bat with power, even if it's a platoon bat (preferably LHH as they play more). I'm just spit balling but wasn't Joc Pederson available around that time? 

Joc Pederson hasn't really played OF since 2022.

The slick fielding SS for under $5M is IKF man.  

Atkins probably hoped he was getting 2023 Gimenez (3.8 WAR, 96 wRC+), but what we may have gotten was 2024 Gimenez (3 WAR, low 80 wRC+).  He was hurt last year.