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[Jimcanuck]

Nothing personal. I think a first round pick is far too high a price to pay for an easy mistake, and negligible result.

But even worse than overly harsh penalties are penalties applied inconsistently.

 

Have no idea what transpired last year. Would tend to agree the loss of a 1st rounder is a bit much but justifiable in some cases. Better option would be to lose draft places.... ie. if your pick is No. 9, you drop 5 or whatever places to No. 14 and everyone in between moves up. Enough of a deterrent and not too punishing either.

[BTS]

Nothing personal. I think a first round pick is far too high a price to pay for an easy mistake, and negligible result.

But even worse than overly harsh penalties are penalties applied inconsistently.

 

Two comments in response to your posts in here:

 

1) I disagree that it's an easy mistake to make. It's actually a mistake that's very easy to not make. Most of us have been in multiple leagues for multiple years and never done it. It's a mistake that's the result of carelessness.

 

2) I think you're either overvaluing the 20th overall pick or undervaluing Trent Grisham. KATOH had him 8th on its top-100 in February, and the FG guys have a 50 FV value on him, and listed him as in consideration for their top-100. The other OFs they had in his tier: Heliot Ramos, Jesse Winker, Seuly Matias, Corey Ray, Christin Stewart. I'd personally rather have him than multiple guys taken in that spot in the draft last year, and if I were Jim I would have chosen to drop Yadier Alvarez instead.

[jaysblue]

I was a rebuilding team as well. Took over a team that wasn't a playoff contender and traded a bunch of veterans for younger assets and picks at that trade deadline when I took over for Chappy. I made a simple mistake by adding Antonio Senzatela which was my first ever offense. And I lost a valuable asset in a 1st round pick. I think rulings should be consistent on these issues. But yeah because its me I guess, my opinion really doesn't matter.

 

Nothing against Jim and I'm sure he made an honest mistake, though like Greenwood said the penalties shouldn't be applied inconsistently.

[L54]

Alternatively, we could give Jim a more minor penalty, and restrore JaysBlue pick that was taken from him.

Because this is a really stupid penalty, and it's inconsistent, because it depends on what picks someone has.

 

We need to give this some thought. The fact that JB lost his first round pick and Jim is losing Trent Grisham is not even in the same stratosphere.

 

I give the commissioners of all leagues credit because it really is a thankless job, but we need to rectify this so the penalties are somewhat similar. No Jim, I don't care how hard you beg for mercy, and being new is not an excuse. Control F is really easy to use, and when in doubt don't add the player. I also don't care about the stats he did or did not accumulate because that's besides the point.

[BTS]

Am I wrong in determining that a) Trent Clark is somewhere in the 100-150 range for prospects, and the 20th overall pick in a MiLB draft gets you a prospect in that same range?

 

I think both of those statements are pretty reasonable, but I don't own Clark anywhere, and two posters that I respect a fair bit clearly think I'm wrong on at least one account.

[King]

Trent Grisham sucks. I would rather have the pick.

[L54]

What pick did JB lose? I don't get how it would've been pick #20? Pardon my ignorance.

 

Trent Clark does not get me hard, and would likely have been one of Jim's cuts come July. If he was available during this prospect draft, he wouldn't go in the first two rounds IMO.

 

Now what is an appropriate penalty? I'm not sure, we need to discuss this. Once this situation is resolved my suggestion is to put something in stone and make all illegal add penalties the same.

[L54]

Really we need to either a) keep Jim's penalty consistent with JB's or figure out how we will compensate JB for losing his first rounder (giving him some sort of pick)

[connorp]

What pick did JB lose? I don't get how it would've been pick #20? Pardon my ignorance.

 

Trent Clark does not get me hard, and would likely have been one of Jim's cuts come July. If he was available during this prospect draft, he wouldn't go in the first two rounds IMO.

 

Now what is an appropriate penalty? I'm not sure, we need to discuss this. Once this situation is resolved my suggestion is to put something in stone and make all illegal add penalties the same.

 

Completely arbitrary penalties seem more reasonable to me than a common sense approach. IMO. Good commishing

[BTS]

What pick did JB lose? I don't get how it would've been pick #20? Pardon my ignorance.

 

Trent Clark does not get me hard, and would likely have been one of Jim's cuts come July. If he was available during this prospect draft, he wouldn't go in the first two rounds IMO.

 

Now what is an appropriate penalty? I'm not sure, we need to discuss this. Once this situation is resolved my suggestion is to put something in stone and make all illegal add penalties the same.

 

JB lost pick 20.

 

My rationale is that the guys picked in that area are largely 45-50 FV guys outside the top-100. Clark is a 50-FV guy that both FG and BA identified as getting top-100 consideration, and is a KATOH darling.

 

I still see him as being pretty close to guys like Hasely, Bukauskas, Chavis, and Burnes, who went in the 19-24 range last year.

[BTS]

Completely arbitrary penalties seem more reasonable to me than a common sense approach. IMO. Good commishing

 

This isn’t constructive.

[Pendleton]

JB lost pick 20.

 

My rationale is that the guys picked in that area are largely 45-50 FV guys outside the top-100. Clark is a 50-FV guy that both FG and BA identified as getting top-100 consideration, and is a KATOH darling.

 

I still see him as being pretty close to guys like Hasely, Bukauskas, Chavis, and Burnes, who went in the 19-24 range last year.

 

Yeah when you put it that way it does seem more reasonable (and thought out) then my initial reaction.

[jays4life19]

Am I wrong in determining that a) Trent Clark is somewhere in the 100-150 range for prospects, and the 20th overall pick in a MiLB draft gets you a prospect in that same range?

 

I think both of those statements are pretty reasonable, but I don't own Clark anywhere, and two posters that I respect a fair bit clearly think I'm wrong on at least one account.

 

Trent Ghisom/Clark was traded in the LoD for a 4th round pick in Jan and since then has hit 74 wRC+ (In 40 PA's). I know that doesn't really matter a whole lot but he has not done anything to really improve his value since that trade.

 

I don't think he would have been a keeper on Jims farm since it's stacked.

 

In the upcoming draft for BORED I don't think he would be drafted in the top 3 rounds.

[connorp]

Well since I trolled BTS enough, I guess I can understand trying to equal out value. If you just say 1st round pick.. what if it’s a #2 overall? A little more brutal than #20 and so #22 would make more sense.

 

But then of course you get the disagreements over value. So you can’t really win

[connorp]

Non-trolling, honestly I think a 1st is too severe of a penalty. I mean if it’s a 3rd it’s much less an issue what overall pick it is

[connorp]

3rd first offense, 2nd time a 1st (no matter what overall)

[jays4life19]

Perfect solution. JimMcBob loses Trent Clark still since that's done but JB can add Trent Clark if he wants to his farm

[jays4life19]

I will accept a first round compensation pick as a reward for my suggestion.

[Abomination]

What about compensation for me? Joe Jimenez has been traumatized by his ordeal.

[jays4life19]

What about compensation for me? Joe Jimenez has been traumatized by his ordeal.

 

You can have the prospect I drop at cutdown since I have an extra first round compensation pick

[BTS]

Trent Ghisom/Clark was traded in the LoD for a 4th round pick in Jan and since then has hit 74 wRC+ (In 40 PA's). I know that doesn't really matter a whole lot but he has not done anything to really improve his value since that trade.

 

I don't think he would have been a keeper on Jims farm since it's stacked.

 

In the upcoming draft for BORED I don't think he would be drafted in the top 3 rounds.

 

I believe he made the trade very shortly after announcing that he was available, and you responded at the time that you were surprised he didn't return a 2nd, which would be 31-60 range. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to weigh stuff like that with his FV grade and HM in top-100 lists.

 

What do you think would have been the best approximation to pick 20?

[L54]

JB lost pick 20.

 

My rationale is that the guys picked in that area are largely 45-50 FV guys outside the top-100. Clark is a 50-FV guy that both FG and BA identified as getting top-100 consideration, and is a KATOH darling.

 

I still see him as being pretty close to guys like Hasely, Bukauskas, Chavis, and Burnes, who went in the 19-24 range last year.

 

I understand your rationale, I just don't think it's fair to apply it in this scenario. In 2016 picks 19-24 were: Acuna, Bellinger, Paulino, Pint, Stewart and Albies. In 2015 they were: Judge, Anderson, Brinson, Baretto, Meadows and Hanson.

 

I would way rather have #20 than Grisham, coupled with the fact that Jim very likely would've cut him later this summer tells me we need to collectively find a way to solve this.

 

Does giving JB a comp pick at the end of round 2 seem fair? Too much? Not enough? I'm looking at you AG.

 

I really don't want to force Jim to give up more, but to even this out I do believe JB needs to be compensated in some form.

[jays4life19]

I believe he made the trade very shortly after announcing that he was available, and you responded at the time that you were surprised he didn't return a 2nd, which would be 31-60 range. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to weigh stuff like that with his FV grade and HM in top-100 lists.

 

What do you think would have been the best approximation to pick 20?

 

I'll admit it was a sell low but we have deeper prospect pools in the LoD and I have soured a bit on Clark.

 

If someone were to offer me Clark here for a MILB pick as of today I might give a 3rd/4th for him. But honestly, I would probably pass.

[Pendleton]

I believe he made the trade very shortly after announcing that he was available, and you responded at the time that you were surprised he didn't return a 2nd, which would be 31-60 range. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to weigh stuff like that with his FV grade and HM in top-100 lists.

 

What do you think would have been the best approximation to pick 20?

 

I don't envy your decision here, doesn't seem like there's any easy answer.

[jays4life19]

I don't envy your decision here, doesn't seem like there's any easy answer.

 

Jim loses TC. JB gets TC.

 

Easy peasy.

[BTS]

I understand your rationale, I just don't think it's fair to apply it in this scenario. In 2016 picks 19-24 were: Acuna, Bellinger, Paulino, Pint, Stewart and Albies. In 2015 they were: Judge, Anderson, Brinson, Baretto, Meadows and Hanson.

 

I would way rather have #20 than Grisham, coupled with the fact that Jim very likely would've cut him later this summer tells me we need to collectively find a way to solve this.

 

Does giving JB a comp pick at the end of round 2 seem fair? Too much? Not enough? I'm looking at you AG.

 

I really don't want to force Jim to give up more, but to even this out I do believe JB needs to be compensated in some form.

 

Keep in mind that the 2015 draft was us distributing the top-100 prospects, because we all had empty farms.

[The Cats Ass]

Seems reasonable to me.

[BTS]

OK, so here's where I stand:

 

J4L19, L54, and Greenwood have offered commentary on the decision, and I trust all three of you, so I think you three should decide what to do about this (and spittin should he read this). I've stated my opinions, and have nothing further to add to the discussion.

 

I'm not putting myself though this again though, so I ask that any amendment to the decisions made come with a new rule to eliminate subjective decisions of this nature going forward. We'll put into place whatever you three decide by consensus.

[jays4life19]

Can I just decide instead?

[The Cats Ass]

3rd first offense, 2nd time a 1st (no matter what overall)

 

For the 1st rounder if it was the 1st overall pick, and it was me, I'd pull a ConnerP, trade all my young guys/prospects/picks for whatever old vets i could find, then rage quit the league after winning the championship.