Official Former Jays Lolz or non-lolz thread

[jays_fever]

 

Dickey > Happ. WAR is not the only stat. 215 innings, 3.71 era and 14 wins is not average or Number 3 starter? lol.

 

14 wins isnt number 3 quality. Maybe if he won 16 or more

[ScientificReason]

 

14 wins isnt number 3 quality. Maybe if he won 16 or more

 

BWHAHAHA....ur dum.

[ElNik2013]

It was a shite trade, but Toronto would be pretty f***ed without the 2 guys who you can pencil in for 200 innings right now.

 

 

Obviously, this includes the Marlins Trade, but you're right. I think people forget the state of the starting rotation at the end of the 2012 season and the 2 old farts have stabilized the patient, so to speak.

 

High price to pay. However, absent those trades, the team would've gone into 2013 expected to lose 90-100 games and given what that would likely have done for attendance and tv ratings, I think they had the mindset that they would improve the team for the next season or 2 at the expense of value and youth.

 

AA's tenure has been a mixed bag of some good trades and some bad ones, but what stands out is his ability to stock the farm system. This has allowed him to trade away a lot of talent while still having a system ranked around 10 in MLB while being a team expected to contend for 3 seasons in a row.

[ElNik2013]

But you said he was below mediocre.....what is it? Now you are contradicting yourself. He is average, middle of the road rotation guy.

 

 

 

For the record, there's a glitch going on as I didn't say the above....it was the guy with the high fever.

Edited April 11, 2015 by ElNik2013

[ScientificReason]

 

 

 

For the record, there's a glitch going on as I didn't say the above....it was the guy with the high fever.

 

The forum is f***ed what's going on? Maybe hacked by JPA. I know you never said it the forum is blowing up right now.

[jays76]

Had they kept d'Arnaud, they may not have needed to shell out 82M over 5 years for Martin. Dickey did serve the win-now direction the franchise had decided to go into, but it was still an overpay.

 

Missing out on Yan Gomes's catching skillz goes hand in hand with their decision to commit to JPA. It showed their terrible evaluation of the C position.

 

Hopefully, the Martin signing means they've improved in that area. Although, they could only go up from were they were.

 

Also, didn't the Jays end up drafting Matt Smoral with the comp pick that resulted from trading Napoli?

 

Not saying that would make it a good trade, it's just that AA was probably too focused on getting a his compensation picks.

 

True and that 82M is a bit of an overpay but when it comes down to it I'd probably still rather have Martin catching over the next 2-3yrs during our prime window. He's more experienced, better defensively, and has proven to be durable (where it's more of an unknown with D'Arnaud).

 

I couldn't agree more, I don't have a clue what AA was thinking during this period. I hated the Rogers trade from day 1.

 

I forgot about the comp pick (not sure if it was Smoral or not) and you're right that's probably exactly what AA was focused on with that trade.

[jays_fever]

 

BWHAHAHA....ur dum.

 

I'm openly mocking how you rate pitchers lol. I use war as a reference point, you use ERA and Wins, yet im the "dum" one.

[ScientificReason]

 

I'm openly mocking how you rate you pitchers lol. I use war as a reference point, you use ERA and Wins, yet im the "dum" one

 

His war is in line with average...all you are doing is making a mockery of yourself. His war, Innings, EAR wins...all add up to a #3 arm, which he is.. Anything else you want to use to embarass yourself? I also never said era, wins was the only stat did I? You seeing things? I said all his stats including those, along with his war make in a solid #3. Not many teams have better at #3 in there rotation.

[ElNik2013]

True and that 82M is a bit of an overpay but when it comes down to it I'd probably still rather have Martin catching over the next 2-3yrs during our prime window. He's more experienced, better defensively, and has proven to be durable (where it's more of an unknown with D'Arnaud).

 

I couldn't agree more, I don't have a clue what AA was thinking during this period. I hated the Rogers trade from day 1.

 

I forgot about the comp pick (not sure if it was Smoral or not) and you're right that's probably exactly what AA was focused on with that trade.

 

 

 

Regarding Martin/d'Arnaud: I love having Martin, but remember, he was a FA the very off season d'Arnaud and Gomes were traded. Had they "overpaid" him then, I think we'd all love having him even more. But as I said, it was all part of their terrible evaluation of the C position. I think we're all hoping the Martin signing means they've come full-circle on that.

 

 

As far as the comp pick, yes, AA was very focused on rebuilding the farm system and had identified a way to game the system so he probably overdid it with the Napoli trade.

[jays_fever]

 

His war is in line with average...all you are doing is making a mockery of yourself. His war, Innings, EAR wins...all add up to a #3 arm, which he is.. Anything else you want to use to embarrass yourself?

 

You keep pointing out wins and im the one embarrassing myself. ERA has been around 4 the past 2 years, which isnt good, XFIP around 4.20 which is even worse. He's a garbage innings eater, hasnt cracked the top 75 ( which is around a 2 war pitcher and middle of the pack number 3) in Starter's War either of the past 2 years and thats with not missing a start.

 

There's dozens of better pitchers than him such as the Jesse Hahn's and Tanner Roark's of the game who just didnt get the opportunity to make as many starts as him to pile up the war, that doesnt make Dickey better than them.

 

The only thing I've done to "embarrass" myself is misuse the word mediocre, and that's partly due to being in the 11th hour of a 12 hr overnight shift. That's not something you should probably poke fun as though seeing as half of your sentences are random words slabbed together

[ScientificReason]

 

You keep pointing out wins and im the one embarrassing myself. ERA has been around 4 the past 2 years, which isnt good, XFIP around 4.20 which is even worse. He's a garbage innings eater, hasnt cracked the top 75 in Starter's ERA either of the past 2 years and thats with not missing a start.

 

There's dozens of better pitchers than him such as the Jesse Hahn's and Tanner Roark's of the game who just didnt get the opportunity to make as many starts as him to pile up the war, that doesnt make Dickey better than them

 

I mentioned them once...... to go along with all his other credentials, cheery pick much?. Again you cherry pick 2 pitchers there are hundreds in the MLB.....he is an average middle of the road starter.....era 3.71 in the al east is not anything to sneeze at btw. Of course there are pitchers them him he is average? You having trouble following the conversation or somethng? No one is saying he is the second coming...he is average, you said he is below average which is nonsense.

[jays76]

Regarding Martin/d'Arnaud: I love having Martin, but remember, he was a FA the very off season d'Arnaud and Gomes were traded. Had they "overpaid" him then, I think we'd all love having him even more. But as I said, it was all part of their terrible evaluation of the C position. I think we're all hoping the Martin signing means they've come full-circle on that.

 

 

As far as the comp pick, yes, AA was very focused on rebuilding the farm system and had identified a way to game the system so he probably overdid it with the Napoli trade.

 

Yup signing Martin then was the play, I truly don't know what pills AA was hopped up on or what kind of dirt JPA had over on him then. We can only hope those ridiculous moves and shoddy evaluating turned him into the seasoned GM he's appearing to be this off season and like you said it's all coming full circle.

 

It's only 3 games in with him but just seeing the immediate difference in framing, defence, and gunning runners out has made me giddy as hell. Having a competent backstop can't be quantified enough for how integral it is to your overall team success (Calling games, building pitching staff confidence, defensively for the entire infield, etc.)

[gbill2004]

Snider and Gose are looking like studs this year.

[GD]

all of you lern2quote my god

[jays_fever]

 

I mentioned them once...... to go along with all his other credentials, cheery pick much?. Again you cherry pick 2 pitchers there are hundreds in the MLB.....he is an average middle of the road starter.....era 3.71 in the al east is not anything to sneeze at btw. Of course there are pitchers them him he is average? You having trouble following the conversation or somethng? No one is saying he is the second coming...he is average, you said he is below average which is nonsense.

 

I cherry picked two pitchers? I picked two random pitchers, I can go on though, Shane Greene, Homer Bailey who missed time due to injury, Jose Fernandez, James Paxton etc are all better pitchers.

 

Every good MLB staff needs workhorses, that doesnt mean those workhorses are all average or better starters. 3.71 is solid, the 4.2 from the previous year wasnt, nor was the XFIP from either of the two seasons here. I dont know what stat im cherry picking, I keep giving him credit for being a workhorse, that again doesnt mean he's a top 75 pitcher. You only mentioned Innings, ERA and Wins ( not sure why would even bring this up once)

[reedjohnsonfan]

This simply isnt true. Noah's major league ready and could likely out pitch Dickey as soon as this year. Dickey really isnt even an average major league starter

 

Dickey is about an average starter I think a few people have got you on that already.

 

But basically, what exactly would you be expecting from Syndergaard this year? Is he really going to be much better than Dickey right away? Plus he's not pitching anywhere close to 220 innings.

[King]

Syndergaards projections look pretty good:

 

http://i.imgur.com/el1W1Tl.png

http://i.imgur.com/9Gcalx7.png

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Agreed. Most people said we could have landed Latos for that package lol.

But seriously it's not the franchise crippling move it seemed like it might be at the time. We're still flush with pitching prospects and have one of the best catchers in the game.

 

And Dickey, really for his stats, has been a financially sound trade also. He's pretty inexpensive for what we get. I love him in our rotation, he's durable, and he gives the next pitcher a Dickey bump. Which is a real thing.

[jays_fever]

Dickey is about an average starter I think a few people have got you on that already.

 

But basically, what exactly would you be expecting from Syndergaard this year? Is he really going to be much better than Dickey right away? Plus he's not pitching anywhere close to 220 innings.

 

Who are these people who have "got me" on this..thats all of you guys keep saying. Throwing a s*** ton of innings doesnt make you a number 3 starter or average, however you want to define it, when you give up a ton of runs and homers during the process.

 

Like I've said, when you factor in all of the pitchers who missed time due to injury or being stuck in the minors, Dickey is in the bottom half of starters.

 

Syndergaard may or may not be much better than Dickey, but he's making 500K a year and that 12 million could have been spent elsewhere. We would be better off with Syndergaard over Dickey 100%.

 

I get called out for "cherry picking" stats when some people look at only 1 year for his ERA.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Syndergaards projections look pretty good:

 

http://i.imgur.com/el1W1Tl.png

http://i.imgur.com/9Gcalx7.png

 

Yikes, those are really good.

[ElNik2013]

Everyone, including the Jays, knew that long term, they'd lose the trade. The deal was made for the now (now being 2013-15).

 

In 2013, Syndergaard was pegged to start at class A+. Starting this year, the loss of the trade becomes more and more tangible.

 

However, this franchise values not going into a season expected to lose 90-100 games because that would mean lower attendance, tv ratings and overall interest in the Blue Jays brand so I firmly believe they went into the 2012 off season with the mindset that they'd improve the team even at the expense of losing trades long term.

[SaskJaysFan_2]

Snider and Gose are looking like studs this year.

 

I'm happy for Snider. He seems like a really good kid. Who was totally mishandled here in Toronto, IMO. Gose, whom I've met, seems like a dick.

[jaysfan2014]

Yikes, those are really good.

 

Of course, he needs to get to the majors first.. and the Mets aren't exactly going to accommodate that right now until his numbers improve in AAA.

[ElNik2013]

Of course, he needs to get to the majors first.. and the Mets aren't exactly going to accommodate that right now until his numbers improve in AAA.

 

 

Hey raysjays, it's more likely they're looking to gain the extra year of control on him.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Who are these people who have "got me" on this..thats all of you guys keep saying. Throwing a s*** ton of innings doesnt make you a number 3 starter or average, however you want to define it, when you give up a ton of runs and homers during the process.

 

Like I've said, when you factor in all of the pitchers who missed time due to injury or being stuck in the minors, Dickey is in the bottom half of starters.

 

Syndergaard may or may not be much better than Dickey, but he's making 500K a year and that 12 million could have been spent elsewhere. We would be better off with Syndergaard over Dickey 100%.

 

I get called out for "cherry picking" stats when some people look at only 1 year for his ERA.

 

I didn't read every post I just noticed some posters called you out on him being below average. It depends what you mean by average. Brett Anderson might be a better pitcher than Dickey but he is made of glass so how do you rank that?

 

I wasn't talking about cost, but Dickey at 13 million is a very reasonable contract and it's questionable to assume they could get a significant upgrade for those savings. What I meant was this year, Dickey is a better pitcher to have than Syndergaard. I still don't see how you can argue otherwise... once again people on this forum are overrating the immediate impact of prospects.

[StroShow]

all of you lern2quote my god

 

They all went full retard.

[reedjohnsonfan]

Yikes, those are really good.

 

They're also just projections based on minor league numbers...

[ScientificReason]

Who are these people who have "got me" on this..thats all of you guys keep saying. Throwing a s*** ton of innings doesnt make you a number 3 starter or average, however you want to define it, when you give up a ton of runs and homers during the process.

 

Like I've said, when you factor in all of the pitchers who missed time due to injury or being stuck in the minors, Dickey is in the bottom half of starters.

 

Syndergaard may or may not be much better than Dickey, but he's making 500K a year and that 12 million could have been spent elsewhere. We would be better off with Syndergaard over Dickey 100%.

 

I get called out for "cherry picking" stats when some people look at only 1 year for his ERA.

 

Are you trying to act dumb or obtuse?? People already outlined more then "INNINGS" why he is average, the proof is right in front of you. Cheery picking should be your name.

 

The bolded line makes absolutely zero sense.

[ScientificReason]

 

I cherry picked two pitchers? I picked two random pitchers, I can go on though, Shane Greene, Homer Bailey who missed time due to injury, Jose Fernandez, James Paxton etc are all better pitchers.

 

Every good MLB staff needs workhorses, that doesnt mean those workhorses are all average or better starters. 3.71 is solid, the 4.2 from the previous year wasnt, nor was the XFIP from either of the two seasons here. I dont know what stat im cherry picking, I keep giving him credit for being a workhorse, that again doesnt mean he's a top 75 pitcher. You only mentioned Innings, ERA and Wins ( not sure why would even bring this up once)

 

There are hundreds of pitchers in MLB, you pick 3 or 4...why should I believe those guys are better because you say so? (Never had a chance to look at their numbers) Either way if they are doesn;t make your point

[Blue]

Here are some numbers, because numbers: 2013-2014 MLB pitchers with >=240 innings pitched -> 114 sample size

 

Why this set? I want to look at an average starter based on ML performance, not subject to what-ifs and optimistic sprinkles and sunshine. Injury-prone? Tough luck, you basically rang up medical bills rather than opposing batters. "Established" vet on the decline? Pfft, sit in the bullpen where you belong, don't get any of your middling stench of middle relief on the promising ones. Young and talented in the minors? So what, you're not helping me win Games That Matter When It Matters (aka Now).

 

Onto Dickey: how he ranks in various stats out of the 114:

Wins: 17th best

IP: 3rd

K/9: 66nd

BB/9: 78th

HR/9: 105th

ERA: 81st

FIP: 107th

xFIP: 99th

WAR: 79th

What does this mean? Hell if I know, I just wanted to write something about sprinkles and sunshine.