DJF: What To Make Of Yan Gomes’ Success

[GD]

I guess everyone is a troll

 

not that far fetched

[Clojojo]

are you f***ing serious

 

did you not see the f***ing circlejerk the last board was?

Everytime someone called out AA it was like walking down the seven staircases of hell

Its hilarious to see the fanboys turn on him now, if only we got rid of the clown years ago we should be in the playoffs right now

 

But no 20 years no playoffs, this org is a joke

[Orgfiller]

Two years ago his resume was pretty much spotless. His first awful move was trading Napoli for Francisco 17 months into his tenure, and it was easy to forgive that because of the move that led to us having Napoli in the first place. After this, the awful decisions started rolling in and really haven't stopped.

 

This is the part that hurts the most re:AA. He literally went from being grouped amongst the top 10 (I'd say easily top 5) GM's in the game to having one of the worst offseasons in recent memory, he basically stated that we were rebuilding, went out and made great deals to acquire young, controllable players, built up the farm system through the draft (let's not forget the pile up of comp picks), and then one year the wallet opens up, and he completely changes his mentality and trades young controllable prospects (even the one he had drafted) and other valuable players for old, overpaid, injury-prone ones, it makes no sense whatsoever. I understand that for a while he was making/not making questionable moves (basically right after the Napoli trade, though not including the Delabar one), but this past offseason was just flat-out unjustifiable.

[connorp]

This is the part that hurts the most re:AA. He literally went from being grouped amongst the top 10 (I'd say easily top 5) GM's in the game to having one of the worst offseasons in recent memory, he basically stated that we were rebuilding, went out and made great deals to acquire young, controllable players, built up the farm system through the draft (let's not forget the pile up of comp picks), and then one year the wallet opens up, and he completely changes his mentality and trades young controllable prospects (even the one he had drafted) and other valuable players for old, overpaid, injury-prone ones, it makes no sense whatsoever. I understand that for a while he was making/not making questionable moves (basically right after the Napoli trade, though not including the Delabar one), but this past offseason was just flat-out unjustifiable.

 

One narrative that's a legit explanation that many had, including myself, is that the plan you mentioned AA having wasnt really working out. His drafts/prospects have mostly fizzled. I mean yes he moved Noah and TDA but neither was a guaranteed franchise changer. All the hopes of seeing Gose, Lawrie, Drabek and other be franchise cornerstones started fading last season.. then you have an aging core already in Jose/Edwin.. I mean, was staying the course really going to be better? Woud we be better off if those moves werent made. I say yes.. but would we really be a team set up to compete the next 3-4 years in AL East? No way

 

Guy prob panicked a bit and knew he could lose a job he may never get again.

[connorp]

This is a fair point. I have a hard time believing this front office would have guided the team to the playoffs had they stayed the course. They're just too incompetent.

 

To me.. his bs of providing some superior edge in scouting/development got completely exposed.. he brought no big value to the table in that regard.. not that he was awful and there was some good in there.. but no evidence of being like an OAk, Tex, TAM etc..

 

so I was ok with being more like JPR but he targeted wrong guys.

[Angrioter]

I still can't believe that actually happened.

 

"Nolin is good, he's ready.................... 1.1 IP later "He's not ready"

[connorp]

I still can't believe that actually happened.

 

this is evidence of what I mean. Their scouting dept. obviously said "this guy is ready".. had to be so to start the clock.. then one inning later he's not?

[Orgfiller]

I think at least part of his earlier success was luck. He looked like a genius when he signed Buck, Gonzalez, and Gregg then flipped them off after great seasons while winning 86 games in 2010 when everyone thought they'd lose 90+. The Marcum, Morrow, Rasmus, Wells, and Escobar moves were legitimately excellent GM work though.

 

I think every GM has a fair bit of luck (good or bad) when signing FA to fill positions, but like you said he then used those good years, appeared to realize the unlikelihood of those being repeatable performances, and then abused the compensation system; a very notable example being the Miguel Olivo trade. I was referring more to the excellent trades mentioned in the latter part of your post, it's very hard to believe that the only reason for this poor offseason was that the money finally became available, because something drastic had to change in the FO from the first few years of his tenure to the one who made this happen.

 

That doesn't mean I give him a pass now because of his earlier moves, you might've been able to do that with the Napoli-Francisco trade, but that ship has long sailed, hitting rock bottom with the Mets trade. I just have to believe that we're not seeing the big picture as to whom to a) credit for the first moves and blame for the most recent ones.

[Orgfiller]

One narrative that's a legit explanation that many had, including myself, is that the plan you mentioned AA having wasnt really working out. His drafts/prospects have mostly fizzled. I mean yes he moved Noah and TDA but neither was a guaranteed franchise changer. All the hopes of seeing Gose, Lawrie, Drabek and other be franchise cornerstones started fading last season.. then you have an aging core already in Jose/Edwin.. I mean, was staying the course really going to be better? Woud we be better off if those moves werent made. I say yes.. but would we really be a team set up to compete the next 3-4 years in AL East? No way

 

Guy prob panicked a bit and knew he could lose a job he may never get again.

 

While this is a good point, I disagree on the impact that Syndergaard and TDA would have made on the team; yes Noah wasn't a guaranteed ace (no one is) but scouts sure loved his potential, and we all loved the development track (minus the injuries) for d'Arnaud, and basically penciled him as the obvious JP replacement. Right there if Synder pans out you get at least a good #3 starter with plus potential, and d'Arnaud as the clear CoF. I agree about Drabek, but not about Lawrie or Gose. Lawrie had one down year after an excellent start to his career that came right after he dominated the minors. Gose, yeah everyone knew the hit tool needed obvious work, but still young, had great tools, and not someone to write off without giving him some consideration. Then we have Alvarez, Escobar, Marisnick, even more pieces that we had on our team.

 

I know that not everyone can be a star, and that most prospects don't pan out, but it was still foolish for the FO to give up on their original plan and do a full 360 on it where obviously hindsight helps us see the clear flaws, but even then was criticized from the get-go. It's even worse when you add in the money, why get the overpaid injury prone players? People would not have made a huge fuss about the Dickey and Marlins trade if we instead used the players involved to acquire the likes of Price, Latos, or other young, proven players.

[connorp]

Yeah, we're near the same conclusion. What I'm saying was after 2012 it didnt look great for the franchise going forward..I can understand him maybe feeling pressure to "win now".. but his plan to aquire 30-something, big $ health risks clearly wasnt the right panic move.

[GD]

Two years ago his resume was pretty much spotless. His first awful move was trading Napoli for Francisco 17 months into his tenure, and it was easy to forgive that because of the move that led to us having Napoli in the first place. After this, the awful decisions started rolling in and really haven't stopped.

 

Criticizing AA? Troll.

[TheHurl]

It was a pretty common prediction that the first two would be good, and I don't think anyone's really claimed they knew Boni would be this bad.

 

WHAT? I called him a garbage slap hitter who if he doesn't bunt for singles is one of the worst hitters in all of baseball. Believe my exact words were that half the board would be calling for his DFA by June...who knew it would be all the board.

[GD]

WHAT? I called him a garbage slap hitter who if he doesn't bunt for singles is one of the worst hitters in all of baseball. Believe my exact words were that half the board would be calling for his DFA by June...who knew it would be all the board.

 

Didn't you predict a lot of s*** correctly? I'm wholly unsurprised if you predicted this.

[TheHurl]

As for Gomes the reason not many people saw s*** in him while in Toronto is that his k-totals were really big in the minors and he didn't draw walks. This org has shown over and over again that they don't give a s*** about K's though, we probably tried to turn Gomes into something he's not.

[KingKat]

As for Gomes the reason not many people saw s*** in him while in Toronto is that his k-totals were really big in the minors and he didn't draw walks. This org has shown over and over again that they don't give a s*** about K's though, we probably tried to turn Gomes into something he's not.

 

We didn't get a good look at him behind the plate either.

[TheHurl]

Didn't you predict a lot of s*** correctly? I'm wholly unsurprised if you predicted this.

 

Not really I predicted that this whole thing could go really poorly but outside of saying we lack depth, my reasoning wasn't exactly right on it. I think said that Buehrle would fall apart in the second half like he always does, I also said that Izturis would have a rebound season and be solid on offense. Outside of RR not recovering and Boni being useless, Lawrie not progressing with the bat I don't think I got much correct.

[TheHurl]

You were pretty accurate on Alvarez too. Also Gose. How annoying.

 

That's how I get most annoying poster locked up. I tend to do better at predicting prospects will be a bust than predicting which one's will be good (Travis Snider MVP winner, Jaff Decker perennial clean up hitter and all star, Anthony Rendon next Tony Gwynn and most famously trading Mike Trout).