I'll say it: WALKS ARE OVERRATED

[Caper]

The issue is that there's no good discussion to be had here - the work has been done.

 

Sure there is. You're hearing walks are not important, when people are in fact arguing they are over rated. Which is a completely different argument. Arguing facebook stock is overvalued, isn't saying it's bad to own stock in facebook.

[Jimcanuck]

Sure there is. You're hearing walks are not important, when people are in fact arguing they are over rated. Which is a completely different argument. Arguing facebook stock is overvalued, isn't saying it's bad to own stock in facebook.

 

walks are controversial because the value depends on the situation

 

walking the #9 slap hitter with no one out has value very close to a single, while walking EE with men on 2nd and 3rd with 1 out and JPA on deck may very well have negative value

 

when it comes to the team I watch, the jays, the walks, many going to Bats and EE, seem to be of low value

 

Edit - just read BTS's post above, he is wrong the value of a walk is not static

[o2cui2i]

No evidence to back this up? Hits are more important. I've been watching baseball long enough to know this. Come on man, at least try.

 

JPA cant walk or hit or get on base at a rate that carries him at the major league level.

 

JPA is great at getting himself out and at picking up the baseball after it hits the backstop, but his best skill set was twitter and he quit that.

[o2cui2i]

Its not really the same. Stock values are dynamic and walk values are static.

 

the real argument was started just to irritate people and because JPA cant stop getting himself out.

 

it's not about walks, singles, doubles, triples or HRs. for most of the lineup it's about not making an out all the time. jays have too many guys who fall into that category. they just can help the team by not making outs.

[Caper]

Its not really the same. Stock values are dynamic and walk values are static.

 

I don't think it is static. If you're a player and you're told how important walks are, to the point it messes up your approach at the plate... resulting in a lower OBP, higher K rate, bad counts, ect.... then the pursuit of walking harms the value of the walk.

[Jimcanuck]

A walk with no one out should have the exact value of a single not very close... possibly more because it's likely that the batter faced more pitches

 

no because the single (ball in play) introduces the chance of a fielding error and the runner ending up on 2nd or 3rd

[o2cui2i]

He's about to call you out for calling out JPA. It's happened many times in this thread already.

 

dont give a rats ass.

 

delusional is what it is.... because you cant fix stupid. The JPA fans are as stupid as he is and that's not going to change.

 

 

he's as good as Buster Poser you know.... legend in his own lunch time.

[Caper]

no because the single (ball in play) introduces the chance of a fielding error and the runner ending up on 2nd or 3rd

 

But what if we know the batter only ends up on first?

[JSFIP]

JPA cant walk or hit or get on base at a rate that carries him at the major league level.

 

JPA is great at getting himself out and at picking up the baseball after it hits the backstop, but his best skill set was twitter and he quit that.

 

Wow. I thought the JPA ragging was done. Guess not. Well actually, JPA is carrying himself at the ML level, considering that he's still on the team. And enough with the twitter talk, he did that to focus on his improving game.

[JSFIP]

He's about to call you out for calling out JPA. It's happened many times in this thread already.

 

Sorry for defending the poor guy.

[o2cui2i]

I think the single is worth more because of the potential for an error leading to an extra base or two. Its pretty insignificant though.

 

I dont care how a player gets on. jays OBP is ghastly. at the end of the day, the best stat is OBP... how often does a player simple not make an out. I'd take 9 guys who are slap hitters with 400+ OBP any day of the week. JPA is under 260 and he's not even the worst player on the team.

[Jimcanuck]

But what if we know the batter only ends up on first?

 

then its the same value. the batter doesn't necessarily see more pitches when they walk

[JSFIP]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/slow-lol-zoom.gif

 

This garbage gif again? You do you, repost man, you do you

[96MPHFB-----]

Posting in a legendary thread. Here is the OP:

 

Go ahead, disagree with me. I'm sure all of you sabermetrics idiots will instantly. It's the truth, that's all. SOOOOOOOO overrated by everyone on this board.

 

 

So he says walks are overrated and provides 0 evidence to support his claim. To top this off he commits a logical fallacy by calling sabermetrics supporters idiots. He then cries as he is called an idiot.

 

What the f*** are we suppose to do when you never supported your claim in your main post. You have a polarized opinion, at least back it up.

[Jimcanuck]

Wow. I thought the JPA ragging was done. Guess not. Well actually, JPA is carrying himself at the ML level, considering that he's still on the team. And enough with the twitter talk, he did that to focus on his improving game.

 

JPA is one of the top 10 worst players in MLB, and a prime reason the Jays are cellar dwellers.... the evidence is overwhelming.... he has easily on his own resulted in a dozen losses

[JSFIP]

He's not a poor guy, he's a major league athlete. All athletes have to be prepared to take criticism, but it's evident that JPA can't (Zaun episode).

 

You say can't take criticism, I say more focus. Tomayto, tomahto

[theblujay]

I think walks are a bit overrated, especially when we consider prospects. It seems like some if you dismiss the idea of a prospect being valuable when you see low walk rates (example: Pillar). Being able to hit and hit well its underrated by some who focus more on walks.

[o2cui2i]

Wow. I thought the JPA ragging was done. Guess not. Well actually, JPA is carrying himself at the ML level, considering that he's still on the team. And enough with the twitter talk, he did that to focus on his improving game.

 

you're full on nuts!

 

JPA did that because he's a sack of crap and cant take being told that he is a sack of crap. I'm sure he's a swell guy off the field, but he cant play baseball worth s***. he's the back up catcher on most other teams and not even on the big league club on some. he's really NOT very good. most of his stats are dead last among starters. except for pass balls, that he excels at.

 

now go and try to tell me that the stats lie.

 

you fight like a girl.

[JSFIP]

Posting in a legendary thread. Here is the OP:

 

 

 

 

So he says walks are overrated and provides 0 evidence to support his claim. To top this off he commits a logical fallacy by calling sabermetrics supporters idiots. He then cries as he is called an idiot.

 

What the f*** are we suppose to do when you never supported your claim in your main post. You have a polarized opinion, at least back it up.

 

Maybe you should read the whole thread before making comments like this

[Jimcanuck]

Yes..error or not the result is the same.. your on first base...I believe I said base hit so how could that not be equally valuable

 

if there is a fielding error its still a single, but the runner is now on 2nd or 3rd..... so a single is always in every circumstance more valuable than a walk

[JSFIP]

JPA is one of the top 10 worst players in MLB, and a prime reason the Jays are cellar dwellers.... the evidence is overwhelming.... he has easily on his own resulted in a dozen losses

 

Source?

[o2cui2i]

Singles have the small advantage in run expectancy in a bases-empty environment because of situations where a hitter singles and then advances to 2nd or 3rd on an error.

 

speaking or advancing to 2nd... why was Reyes still on first to be doubled up by Davis twice today??? tight game and he was glued to the bag. not like Bedard has an elite move to first.

[Boxcar]

sure. my comment was simply to counterbalance yours which as written implied there is no downside to a walk. there can be significant downside to a walk which is why an intentional base on balls is worth about 25% of a single

 

Because the possibility of a double play is no longer present if you reach via a hit rather than a walk?

 

This thread is so stupid. I've tried to avoid saying things like "ban this guy" or "lock this thread" but jesus f***, all this thread needs now is DJBluRay agreeing with the op and then jerking off to Manny Machado and his low walk totals.

[JSFIP]

you're full on nuts!

 

JPA did that because he's a sack of crap and cant take being told that he is a sack of crap. I'm sure he's a swell guy off the field, but he cant play baseball worth s***. he's the back up catcher on most other teams and not even on the big league club on some. he's really NOT very good. most of his stats are dead last among starters. except for pass balls, that he excels at.

 

now go and try to tell me that the stats lie.

 

you fight like a girl.

 

I'm not fighting I'm defending. Ever heard of karate, it's kind of like that. You probably wouldn't understand

[JSFIP]

Lets hear your argument about how good he is

 

$5 says RBIz and Home runs?

 

He's a character guy who's in a bit of a slump right now. I believe in the long run he will be good for this team

[o2cui2i]

Source?

 

fangraphs

 

Baseball-reference

 

Bleacherreport

 

MLB stats

 

SABR.org

 

 

seriously, you cant be this stupid?

[JSFIP]

Lets hear your argument about how good he is

 

$5 says RBIz and Home runs?

 

I'll take my $5 thank you

[JSFIP]

fangraphs

 

Baseball-reference

 

Bleacherreport

 

MLB stats

 

SABR.org

 

 

seriously, you cant be this stupid?

 

Does any of this prove that JPA is personally responsible for "a dozen losses?" Who's "stupid," now, huh?

[FireAlexAnthopoulos]

He's a character guy who's in a bit of a slump right now. I believe in the long run he will be good for this team

"Character guys" don't rip the media for criticizing their own suck-ass play.

 

"Character guys" don't arrogantly proclaim themselves to be better than Buster Posey when they're really one of the worst catchers in baseball.

[JSFIP]

Character guy does not equal good baseball player

 

See, Kawasaki.

 

Why do you think he will be good in the long run?

 

From what I've seen, he has a chance to be a great catcher. Lets not all bury him during a tough time in his career