JJippidy

I think it's become clear that the payroll was boosted because they were pitched a contender that would recoup the expenses and the safety net of the new national TV money. The team tanked last year, now hands are tied and the farm can't support 25 man upgrades. Bright spot = Stroman and Sanchez, they could be what determines the entire organizations short term fate.

It would be incredibly unlikely for AA to stick if Beeston stepped down. That's getting ahead of ourselves, but if things go south I'd imagine we do see Beeston step down, they'll allow him to leave under his own accord even though between the lines it's a canning. AA follows when the new GM comes in, question then would be how much do they blow up? Hopefully this club stays healthy and that scenario doesn't play out.

I still can't help but find it slightly insulting that they continue to play it as if Rogers invested a ton of money into the team when all they really did was elevate payroll from the 97 million a few years back to match the extra revenue they're now receiving. It's not as if they spent in good faith, more like they're just keeping up. The money wasn't spent with terrible efficiency, but still having to pass around a collection plate in the locker room makes the organization look comfortably second tier. Who invests 130 million only to then draw the line in the sand? That's not how you maximize an investment in a club, it's a decent way to waste one though. Blow it up or add what was essentially promised at the start of the off season, an arm, it's these half measures with crossed fingers that kills my enthusiasm for the organization.

Dumb to judge the Jays off of 2 series, not dumb to look at this club anytime from the end of last season to now and come to the same conclusion. Their roster going back to the beginning of the off season has suggested that the play offs would be and are a stretch.

Most posters on here have been waiting a generation for this team to "get going." Asking for patience is honestly not something anyone should expect.

Well, I don't want to s*** on ownership completely, they have spent. Thing is I just don't think there's any vision at the top of this organization, seems like there's a boardroom full of risk adverse robots releasing funds when the numbers say they're allowed to rather than out of a desire to win, pride or good faith. There's a lot of benefits to Rogers owning the team, but man in the end do I ever f***ing hate a lot of things about corporate ownership, ownership almost seems non-human/invisible and you can't ever seem to just get a simple f***ing answer on direction.

Hard to figure out the take away here. They had money to add 14 million to payroll, but that's probably at the very extreme end of it and it sounds like they'd have had to crawl to Guy Laurence on their hands and knees to get it, probably while having to explain to him what baseball is, what Canada is, and what the Toronto sports market is. What I see is a team that gambled that last years spending would increase revenues enough to allow them greater payroll flexibility, they lost the gamble f***ing horribly and now have little no back-up other than hoping for the best as it sounds like they only have one bullet left in the chamber in terms of adding to this team. They have spent money, that's a fact, but I'm really starting to think that all this ownership did was ok a payroll boost because the risk was essentially zero given that the new TV money would be kicking in a year later. I would have thought that spending would make sense financially for ownership but they're making it sound like it was always about the team needing to create more revenue before they can spend more.... again.

The movie will be filmed in Toronto, but for reasons concerning marketability the Jays storyline will be turned into the Yankees. Either that or the film ends with Dickey winning the Cy, then during the black out period between last scene and end credits a brief mentioning of him cashing in with a foreign based baseball team will scroll across the screen in size 10 font. Seriously though, unless the Jays do something huge the Jays storyline is s***, you can't end a motivational sports movie with a guy pitching so so on a last place team.

It all goes back to the less tangible value though. Is Rogers making less than before, that's possible or probable. But like I said, I don't believe the value of the Jays is about the $39 million it can contribute to Rogers' multi-billion dollar profits. The value is in having as many eyes watching the Jays as possible because that allows Rogers a platform to advertise their brand and provides a ton of content for their TV, radio, magazines, web etc. I get that they're a public company and the team certainly can't justify the crazy 50 - 100 million dollar losses like it was way back when. But those were legitimate losses back then, now the landscape has evolved so much, truly massively, that I have to believe 15 million in losses or 40 million in profit are no longer the important numbers. It's viewership, SN1 subscribers, web hits... and keeping those numbers healthy are more important than the manufactured numbers the club reports. If they can do it cheaper, then they may, but I also have to believe they understand that sometimes it'll cost to keep the engine going and if things really get going they know they're going to cash in huge.

They're going to be getting tens of millions extra starting this season from the new national TV deal, right?, which is something I imagine was acknowledged during the budget expansion last year. Even if we assume that the numbers Forbes came up with represent the actual value of the club to Rogers, though we shouldn't, this team is still reasonably positioned to be in the black this season with the new flow of money. Frankly, a Jays team that is popular and losses a couple million is still of more value to Rogers than a Jays team that is unpopular and generates 20 million a year in profit. Next to the billions Rogers rakes in the actual financial earning power of the Jays is minimal, the clubs significance is mostly in it's ability to cross-promote the brand. Think of it this way, if networks are throwing around 100+ million a year to teams for their TV rights because they can make that back and then some from ad's then how much is the constant smattering of Rogers EVERYTHING worth during Jays broadcasts not to mention the teams ability to make all those extra channels viable during the summer months? I'd say a lot more than the miniscule losses being suggested.

Which is the benefit of paying yourself for your own TV rights, it protects the money not being shelled out from going into the shared revenue formulas. This going forward is huge when in a couple years the formula changes for the large markets.

I'd be shocked if the Jays actually lose money, hard to imagine they aren't recouping that 15 million and then some after they sell themselves broadcast rights that are a fraction of what other teams get for substantially less viewers, even with differences in Canada US ad revenue rates.

I like some Pilsners though, basterdized as they may be, that's like saying that if I don't like Busch then I can't like Mooshead. All Beers aren't created equal, but I'll settle for the fact that they get the job done.

Not just the 2013 trades, the biggest reason for the need is the fact that this team hasn't produced any of it's own talent. That's an issue that goes back well past the AA era. Remove Dickey, Buehrle and Reyes from the equation and take back the talent given up, sure you have a better farm and less committed payroll, but you also have a rotation that consists of Morrow as the #1... This team was always going to have to spend if it wanted to compete during Jose' window.

Isolated it's irrelevant, in the context of actuality it represents ongoing failure.

That's for certain. I hate AA talking about how they couldn't compete with an NL team when the only reason they had to was because of playing cute and allowing g injury to create demand against them at the 11th hour.

That might prove a little misleading. You'd have to focus on the actually delivery, the angle created by the pitchers mechanics and not just the height. 6'4'' throwing low three quarters and driving low with the legs should easily produce a shallower trajectory than a 5'10'' pitcher coming over the top and landing his lead leg more upright. I'd be curious to see some actual data though because my gut tells me that natural movement on the ball is probably the main factor regardless of height, the basic flight of the ball achieved during release is established upon release as opposed to the later movement you get via spin. Plus most guys have an upper cut to their swing which in theory should mean the bat is along the plane of a steep pitch longer than a straighter one. I think you don't see many short guys on the mound more because it's pretty hard to hit 90 below 6 feet.

Taxes should be higher in Baltimore than Toronto. Someone could confirm this maybe, but the US federal income tax rate for the top income bracket is far greater than the Canadian equivalent, the low(er)/no state income taxes don't compensate for this in most places.

Thing is I see WAR evaluations as nearly irrelevant in 1 year deals. Or at least id be willing to "overpay" because of the term. They dont really impact the future finances or establish a trend within the narket that the club will overpay going forward - unless you're willing to sign a 1 year deal. WAR does't take into account the value of short term deals for a club either and there is value there off the field even though it eludes inclusion into the formula. Second round pick for 200 innings, this club needs that trade off, that's just the reality of its situation, something else that WAR cant take into account. He's more valuable to the Jays than whatever the standard market worth of a win is. Im fine with an overpay because of all that one a 1 year deal, Id rather not, id rather it be soneone else, but if hes it then even 15-16 for one year, id bite the bullet.

Brah, android can only do so much, a few whiskeys sure, beyond that youre on your own. But serious question, jays dont sign santana, whats the narrative, how would they spin it and would it lend credence to aa beying the shot caller or rogers dictating payroll? Im torn, dont really like him, but love the idea of an eady one year deal. Whats the risk?

I hear you but to be honest were looking at hutch drabek stroman as guys who could snag a spot that have potential beyond a few good starts that buck their curve, aka warm bodies who might hit replacement production. The depth exists, ill admitt that, but i think its half a mirage, depth needs to go beyond mere numbers, especially when the list is populated by untested rookies, guys with control problems and tj recoveries. This took me 20 minutes ti spell correct into coherence, f*** you all and have a good night, peace.

Ive had a few drinks, im not a santana fan, but even i know 200 innings from the 5 spot on a one year deal makes a lot of f***ing sense, but hey i guess aa likes the internal options of 500 walks per 9 from drabek and morrows ability to project as an ace for 5 starts before his upper torso dislocates from his legs.

My car, if we ignore the last time the engine fell out, has gone 17, 000 km on 3 occasions before breaking down. My point, that's a low bar. I like Morrow, but his history with issues has become significant. You can't just ignore the very latest and most significant, time wise, injury the guy suffered with the Jays only to then reference the previous years which were also cut short 50% of the time - throwing out his first year as a starter for fairness.

Well... there's also the Morrow angle, the idea that the man of glass might break to pieces is far from laughable. Dudes gone 150+ innings once, which at this point IS the outlier.

Pretty good, but I think a more Jaysesque approach would be: Fail to make needed maintenance upgrades to the Rogers Centre Watch it collapse Hand over insurance money to parent company Draw up plan for new stadium Fail to hire a contractor Sit in a dark room and wait to be fired