DuckDuckGose

Well if you were a fan the team on the field should be what you care about most. If Shapiro's past moves are any indication we can expect a less exciting team in the near future. Surely, you know what excitement is. Ya exactly. Yes it does. Most GM's will spend their entire tenure without making a move as big as any of the Halladay, Tulo, JD or Miami trades. Some may never sign as big a FA as Russel Martin. I don't know what you are basing that on but during his time in Toronto AA definitely made more big moves than anyone else. They'd make less than with Rogers showing the games themselves. Cut out the middleman. What are you basing that on? Rogers woefully under-compensates the Jays for their content. The Jays are the middleman Rogers uses to obfuscate tax law.

Why is having Shapiro in charge more exciting than Beeston and AA? Anthopolous was easily the most exciting executive in baseball.

Texas got $3.1B on a 20 yr deal. IMO that's what the Jays would be using as a comparable.

How can anyone dislike Brendan Shanahan? Is this real life?

Apparently they're losing money and viewers. Not exactly what you want from the suits.

The thing they're known for is starting the trend of locking up their talent with long term pre-arb deals. Under Shapiro they were ahead of most franchises in terms of using analytics, they've made some good trades, signed more good than bad deals (Bourn and Swisher are the only two I can really think of). All that is good and what I want from a FO team. I just don't view him as the cream of the crop (like I do with the Leafs management team but that's an entirely different argument) -- and that was more my point; executives can be competitive advantage and the easiest place to spend to gain that edge. In terms of their FO I think the Jays partially closed the gap on their competition and feel Shapiro is a minor upgrade on Beeston. I also loved Anthopolous work ethic, that's hard to replace and made him a lot better at his job than he should've been but there's lots of room for improvement.

How about instead of announcing it you just do it?

The exact dollar amount doesn't matter. The Leafs FO team is by far and away the most expensive and quite possibly the most talented in the NHL. The Jays' team is somewhere in the middle of the pack. We know enough to assert both of those points. When you're talking FO teams it's not necessarily about compensation; it's about competency vs the FO teams of the competition. Good executives give you an advantage, spending more gives you an advantage to sign better executives/staff; the Jays do a good job of this in terms of scouting, training and development they can do more at the upper levels (and I imagine they will eventually like the Raptors and Leafs have). it's far more than hype, they're doing a great job so far. The biggest challenge will be sticking to the long term plan when they start having success and the only way we can't judge that yet. No more so than Anthopoulos or Beeston. I don't think Shapiro will be bad; I imagine he'll be pretty good but he's done nothing to make me believe he is on the level of someone like Theo Epstein or Stan Kasten.

I'm sure Shapiro is fine but what has he done that would make you feel he's a top executive? Flounder in Cleveland? Cleveland isn't known for spending on it's team or executives nor are they known to be a exorbitantly savvy front office. Why would you think he would be expensive? I'm sure he's compensated quite well but I'd be hesitant to say he's making anything more than the median for his title. Lastly, if you truly feel Shapiro, Atkins and Gibbons is a better management team than Lou, Shanahan and Babcock you're not listening to logic and reason. IMO there is no basis to that argument but maybe I'm missing something.

Kevin Pillar's wife is the #1 WAG; hands down

He's not the cream of the crop either though. Beeston can boast all of those accomplishments and then some (including two WS rings) but that doesn't make him one of the best in the business.

No he's not, he's a budget guy.

Well if they spent nearly as much on the Jays' FO as they do on the Leafs' FO they'd be in a much better spot. Rogers has never spent to land a big time president, GM or manager for the Jays and I doubt they ever will. Typing that out was kind of depressing though!

IMO more money just lets you take more risks and gives you that leeway when you ultimately make a mistake. STL is a great example of that. They spend enough to win but it takes one of, if not the most, competent front offices in all of professional sports to keep them competitive year-after-year. The Jays don't have the luxury of an extremely competent management team; there will be mistakes and if they're spending the same amount as the Cards (and there is a good chance STL has a higher payroll than the Jays in 2016) in the long run they're going to lose. Now all that may change under Shapiro but it takes at least 3 years to make the franchise your own and he is dealing with AA's roster which means he'll need to spend a little more than the competition to win. Luckily, Rogers are the richest owners in baseball and have the money for a competitive advantage. I'm really hopeful they will spend that $20M more to push this team from a fringe contender in to a truly elite team with depth all over the diamond.

And you know what I looked at the most recent projections; scary thing is oil isn't expected to be back over $100 barrel until 2020. That's really bad for the oil sands which cannot be profitable at the current rate. That being said it's not all doom and gloom for the Canadian economy; it's just one aspect.

I'd be happy with a payroll around $150M USD; that would shut me up. It's not there yet and that'd be more than enough to add Maeda (plus they can ship out Revere and Smoak to clear up ~$12M in payroll space or add to the bullpen). I don't think that's being unreasonable as a fan. I'm not bitching about payroll (yet), I'm saying sign Maeda. Lot's of off-season to go and lots of arms that can help this team. I know they'll need more for a WS, Maeda looks like an ideal target to help them get there and that's all I really care about. But yes corporate ownership is the worst. I wish Illitch was a Torontonian

There is also no reason for Rogers to have $130M payroll. Look at all the money in baseball due to the new TV deals, look at the money Rogers gave to the NHL for the broadcasting rights and consider just how little they give the Jays. In terms of total payroll right now the Jays are closer to the Marlins than the Dodgers. I don't think Rogers is cheap but surely Rogers can turn a profit while spending more than $130M and do the same.If the business case is there (and it is) then you owe it to your fans to go after a WS (and that doesn't mean make a bad deal). Right now they're half-assing it and I'm not okay with that but the off-season isn't over and I'm choosing to be optimistic that they'll spend a little more to fill their needs.

your words not mine. I don't think Rogers is cheap but I know they can spend more and still be very profitable. I don't want to be condescending but that's not how operational budgets work. If there is a solid business case and return on investment then the budget can and does change. , It's corporate rhetoric. The exchange rate isn't that big of a deal and that's according to Beeston who knows far better than Shapiro about the organizations financials. They also would never come out and say they have tons of money to spend and are choosing not to because of the obvious PR backlash/unnecessary expectations and because spending for the sake of it is never wise. To win more games and make more money. That's how the business of sports works. If Rogers doesn't get that they're in the wrong industry.

Rogers is the richest owners in MLB and they're making boatloads of cash off the Jays. They have the money and I'm not going to make excuses for them.

It might be but it shouldn't be

Well the biggest argument against the Jays is that he's going to the west coast. If we look at those teams only really the Dodgers are a fit; Seattle - full rotation but Maeda should be able to beat out a couple of their arms for a rotation spot. Japanese ties and have some money; probably the best fit but unlikely to pursue him SF - already has $60M committed to Shark, Cain and Cueto; likely not interested in Maeda Oakland - big ballpark and active in international free agency but doubtful to outbid anyone for Maeda Angels - full rotation but would be their #2 or #3. Not sure they're going to spend with over $40M already committed to Weaver and Wilson. Padres - other than money why would anyone go there? Doubtful they'll even be in it as they're trying to retool and shed salary Dodgers - could use Maeda and have the money but being in the luxury tax means they'll have to make a much larger investment than other teams bidding; likely has to take less to play there Arizona - after adding Greinke and Miller to their rotation they're likely done. Ultimately, I think Maeda looks East out of necessity. I'm very skeptical that anyone on the West Coast is going to give him the best deal.

Ya, we were! What was that a-hole's name again? Something Grey?

Do you remember the exact #'s? I remembered the Jays at the top of that 2nd group of teams. I thought it was $25M... Would love the actual # if someone has it on hand.

I wanted to speculate at the top end and IMO that's what he will be shooting for. I've watched as much of Maeda and have my opinions based on that but the industry has him as a 2/3. Someone (njh?) linked to an article comparing him to Gallardo who is a very solid #3. You can certainly try but that's also the point. Pitchers are getting crazy money this offseason. Here is an opportunity to land a premium asset at a below market rate. I think the Shelby Miller trade proves that to be false. If you want good pitching you are going pay a very high price. I also think it's reasonable to assume Maeda will be as good as Miller in 2016. I also don't think Toronto is an averageish destination. IMO most FA's look at this team and market as one of the best in the league. There will not be 30 teams involved and most teams do not have as competitive a team as Toronto. Winning is a priority even for international guys. I think a lot of them are but not all of them Sure we do. 100% less than half the league will post the $20M, we can wait and see but I'd wager very heavily on that. Hedging would allow them to limit risk but you're right it comes down to CAD revenue and the Jays make well over their current $130 USD payroll. They can easily afford $160M even at a $.65 CAD. Suggesting otherwise is foolish.

They were the runner-ups for Darvish