Solaxys

Also, can we pls get a dark mode for this site?

Can change to Jays radio broadcast instead of YT broadcast on youtube - click the gear icon > Audio Tracks

And everyone here thinks we need 100 mph hurlers, look at this guy pitching 80 mph sliders and winning.

Oh? Dante teaching Bo stuff again?! False alarm. GIDP ugh.

1-2-Walk-3; we take those

Did he reduce the velo on FB for more control?

Phoenix Saunders has been in the Rays organization since 2014, always been a high K guy. Guerra is ehhhhh, not that good; came over from the Padres

Gonna be a Wisler opener into Yarborough I think no? or MLB just has wrong starter listed

> The Rays have placed LH Brooks Raley and RH Ryan Thompson on the Restricted List and added RH Javy Guerra and RH Phoenix Sanders to the active roster. The Rays have placed LH Jeffrey Springs on the Family Medical Emergency List and recalled LH Ryan Yarbrough from Triple-A Durham. Some guy on twitter said 'trade for KD' - who the f*** is KD?

But who would pay that contract for a 30 yr old player other than the Angels and Mets (can Mets even afford it with their current contracts)? Maybe they do like 150M for 3y and then reeval, but a 10y contract is some high risk signing at his age for that kind of money.

I hope so! Bo works way too hard and you can see that he gets visibly depressed when he isn't doing well; hopefully, he gets out of it.

Guardians walk off Twins AGAIN in the 9th with a 2-run blast from Gimenez. Last night was Naylor.

32M AAV, slightly less than Trout; Soto going to be locked in until 36. Wonder how this will affect Judge's ask since he wants to be the highest paid position player lol.

I'm honestly unsure of Bo more than anything. June: 250/311/411 (722 OPS), 104 wRC+, 25% K Rate After last year, the league looked hard on us and found holes for Bo & Vlad. Vlad is slowly adapting (173 wRC in June) and Kirk behind him is definitely helping as his walk rate went up 2% - also I genuinely think May was that hand/wrist cause of Hicks and he compensated or something. His wrist is still bothering him and so he is DHing a lot more. But Bo is just not getting there, he continues to chase erratically and so doesn't matter if Vlad/Kirk/Teo are behind him, he isn't getting pitches to hit and he is striking out. He's trying to be patient FOR SURE but then just decides randomly to not be patient lol. Teo still continues to not have competitive ABs even though he is hitting better. wRC of 153 but K rate of almost 30% in June. He was so good when he started getting locked in during the STL/Angels series, not chasing that slider off the plate - but started to chase that slider again the Orioles series and on Like last night, comes in, 3 pitches, Ks. Bo fought a bit but also struck out on 2 ugly pitches. Vlad was robbed, he didn't go but the ump called him out. Just annoying when your bottom of the lineup has more competitive ABs than the top - Chapman/Biggio/Gurriel/Tapia, all did work even when they didn't produce. Maybe I am nitpicking, iunno, wtb 24% K-rate Teo again and wtb .800 OPS Bo again

Definitely an option but if Phillies are remotely close to .500 by the deadline, they aren't selling. They have burned the farm before because they were at .500 at ASBreak lol. Astros are definitely the best in terms of what we can get back - Hunter Brown + w.e; he's almost MLB ready - can be starter or reliever, swing/miss Giants are interesting because of Harrison but that'd be a huge gamble I don't know if Guardians would do it - most of their interesting pitchers are in AA and are studs Most of Mets pitching is A+/AA, so wouldn't really fit our timeline atm --- I agree. They have made a lot of low-value deals that just worked out and it was good scouting on their part. Flip side is they get years like this where all the injuries strike. Can definitely be jealous of what they made happen with what they had but we're just getting started. Give it time for the contention window to fully materialize - 2020 playoff was not expected, nor was 2021 where 5 players were having career years. And similar to Rays, we also gambled on Robbie Ray and Marcus Semien which paid off. This year, we gambled on Kikuchi and not paying off . C'est la vie.

Again, where the f*** do you think arms come from lol? f*** it. I'll do your research for you. Rays Their first postseason appearance of the Cash/Neander era was in 2019 (so, 3 yrs ago); lets start with 2018 though as it was winning season since 2013 (didn't make playoffs) We'll look at their top 5 relief arms + anyone with more than 40 IP & <= 4 ERA (I'll highlight high K/9 rates and good FIPs) and see how they came to be in the Rays organization 2018 Sergio Romo [Trade] - who was traded from Dodgers to Rays after posting a 6.12 ERA in 25 innings in 2017. In 2018, he posted a 4.14 ERA in 67.1 IP, 4.04 FIP with 10.0 K/9. | Verdict: Average Ryne Stanek [Top pitching prospect drafted in the 29th round by Rays in 2013] - posted a 2.98 ERA, 11 K/9, 2.27 FIP after 4 yrs in the minors + 1 meh season in 2017. | Verdict: Elite Jose Alvarado [international signing in 2012] - 2.39 ERA, 11.3 K/9; took 6 years to get to the majors. | Verdict: Elite Diego Castillo [international signing in 2014] - came up halfway in 2018 (4 yrs later), and became the opener - 3.18 ERA, 10.3 K/9, 3.30 FIP | Verdict: Great Chaz Roe [Trade in 2017] - this was a mystery, because he spent 13 yrs of his career just going around minor league organizations (including Yankees, who let him go within one season) and Rays picked him up, 3.58 ERA, 4.03 FIP, 9.5 K/9 | Verdict: Good Yonny Chirinos [international signing in 2012] - 3.51 ERA, 4.19 FIP | Verdict: Average So all in all, their best swing/miss pitchers were all long-term prospects. Chaz Roe was undervalued by the entire league but Rays turned him around to be decent, so props to them there. 2019 - Made Wild Card, lost ALDS Chaz Roe makes a return from 2018; 4.06 ERA, 3.31 FIP, 11.5 K/9 Verdict: Good Diego Castillo makes a return from 2018; 3.41 ERA, 10.6 K/9, 3.72 FIP | Verdict: Great Colin Poche [PTNBL from Souza trade, three team trade] - 4.70 ERA, 4.08 FIP, 12.5 K/9 | Verdict: Average Emilio Pagan [Another three team trade where Rays gave up a decent pitching prospect - Brock Burke, hasn't been the same since injury] - 2.31 ERA, 3.30 FIP, 12.3 K/9 | Verdict: Elite Adam Kolarek [Rule 5 Draft] - 3.95 ERA, 4.53 FIP, 1.3 WHIP | Verdict: Meh Andrew Kittredge [Trade for two failed prospects from Mariners] - 4.17 ERA, 3.56 FIP, 10.5 K/99 | Average Trades (somehow fleeced the three-team trade shenanigans twice lol)/prospects. 2020 - Won division, lost WS [lets do 20 IP here cause of the shortened season] Diego Castillo makes a return from 2018; 1.66 ERA, 9.6 K/9, 4.53 FIP | Verdict: Great Nick Anderson [Trade from Twins for Jesus Sanchez (rank 76 MLB prospect) and Ryne Stanek (an excellent reliever, top pitching prospect, elite in 2018)] - 0.55 ERA, 0.49 WHIP, 14.3 K/9 | Verdict: Actually insane Pete Fairbanks [Traded from Rangers for Nick Solak (rank 141 MLB prospect)] - 2.70 ERA, 3.04 FIP, 13.2 K/9 | Verdict: Elite Ryan Thompson [Rule 5 Draft] - 4.44 ERA, 4.33 FIP, 7.9 K/99 | Verdict: Meh Aaron Loup [signed a MiLB deal] - 2.52 ERA, 3.83 FIP, 7.9 K/9 | Verdict: Worked out well but its Loup Aaron Slegers [Traded for cash] - 3.46 ERA, 3.04 FIP, 6.6 K/9 | Verdict: Not a swing/miss but he was probably their best relief pitcher outside of Anderson and Fairbanks; Great John Curtiss [signed a MiLB deal] - career year in Tampa at 1.8 ERA, 3.35 FIP, 9.0 K/9 | Verdict: again worked out for them but never repeated those numbers again Great Jalen Beeks [Traded from Sox for Nathan Eovaldi] - 3.26 ERA, 1.59 FIP, 12.1 K/9 | Verdict: Great Trades everywhere; career years from Loup and Curtiss after signing in minors. 2021 - Won division, lost ALDS Diego Castillo makes a return from 2018; 2.72 ERA, 12.1 K/9, 3.17 FIP | Verdict: Elite Andrew Kittredge makes a return from 2019 (after injury): 1.88 ERA, 3.04 FIP, 9.1 K/9 | Verdict: Elite Pete Fairbanks makes a return from 2020: 3.59 ERA, 2.7 FIP, 11.8 K/9 | Verdict: Great Ryan Thompson makes a return from 2020: 2.38 ERA, 3.11 FIP, 9.8 K/99 | Verdict: Elite Colin McHugh [signed a 1 yr, 1.8M contract post not playing 2020] - 1.55 ERA, 2.12 FIP, 10.4 K/9 | Verdict: Elite but Rays took the risk no other team wanted to because of his inconsistent relief across the 8 yrs in majors. Jeffrey Springs [Traded from Sox for Ronaldo Hernandez (23rd ranked prospect for Rays) and Nick Sogard] - 3.43 ERA, 3.91 FIP, 12.7 K/9 | Verdict: Good Drew Rasmussen [Trade from Brewers for Willy Adames & Trevor Richards] - 2.44 ERA, 2.86 FIP, 7.3 K/9 | Verdict: Elite not swing/miss though J.P. Feyereisen [Trade from Brewers for Willy Adames & Trevor Richards] - 2.45 ERA, 4.23 FIP, 8.1 K/0 | Verdict: Great not swing/miss though Louis Head [MiLB contract] - 2.31 ERA, 3.11 FIP, 8.2 K/9 | Verdict: Great not swing/miss though and in Miami atm, no where close to replicating those #s. More trades, one risk. Their only consistent bullpen arm (Diego Castillo) came from farm. TL;DR Rays traded their farm across 3 years to assemble the bullpen (Kittredge, Fairbanks, Anderson, Springs). They still have an excellent farm, credit to them. Took them three years to set up the elite af BP They absolutely got lucky in certain places with random career years that haven't been replicated (look at Andrew Kittredge in 2020/2021 v. his 3 other years in majors pitching 20 IP+) or three-way trades that somehow they just got the better end of. There was zero high leverage FA signings, cause they don't spend money that way; they pick good MiLB candidates and if they work out, they promote. So sure, we can say Rays have better scouting to that end. Bullpen arms do not fall out of the sky and more importantly, relief arms are not consistent - they might have one or two good years. The rare bullpen arms that are consistent/super-elite are locked up into contracts or require you to trade top 100 prospects to get (look at Nick Anderson trade). Randomly targeting swing/miss pitchers also just doesn't mean you are going to win the game - look at 2021 Rays; had the best bullpen assembled, lost ALDS. The one time they went to WS? Carried by Anderson/Fairbanks duo just like King/Holmes are carrying Yankees this year. Lets take a closer look at the Rays Willy Adames/Trevor Richards trade though - cause that ultimately came to Trevor Richards coming to us for Rowdy. Could Rowdy have been traded for just one of those elite pitchers that Rays got over Trevor Richards? TBH possibly - both haven't had that great of years with Brewers and Rowdy could've at least gotten Rasmussen by himself but Urias was struggling at SS and Adames was more important to the Brewers. They had Vogelbach at 1B who was posting similar #s to Tellez at the time in Toronto, so it was a very low prio trade for Brewers and they just flipped Richards from the Rays deal for him. If we used Espinal instead of Tellez, we could've swung the trade in our favor but then our corners would be Vlad/Tellez or Biggio on a down year at 3B. And then we'd also end up looking for a good 2B this year because Semien wouldn't be here, and there aren't many 2B that have produced as well as Espinal. --- So ya, you want elite BP arms like Rays - we start trading our farm capital like I said in the previous post. Cubs for a 37 yr old David Robertson and Rockies for a 37 yr old Daniel Bard are perfect candidates; having excellent years, rentals, and they'll be terrible next year. Or dish out something like Moreno for Bednar and then lock up Bednar to a 4 yr deal (up to 2027) and hope he doesn't fall off. Why didn't it happen last year? I don't know. You had Kimbrel (ew), Hudson (Padres got him as a rental for an elite K pitcher in Thompson and #28 ranked prospect in system; he signed with Dodgers now), Rodriguez (Braves traded for this reliever for their 9th and 23rd best prospect; suspended atm due to taking PEDS), Iglesias (Wasn't traded; resigned with Angels), Kennedy (traded to Phillies for their #1 prospect + 2 other prospects; resigned with Diamondbacks after season ended), Graveman (couldn't sign cause of COVID restricted list), Rogers (wasn't traded then but then traded for Chris Paddack in 2022 with Twins, prolly a really good trade for Padres), Garcia (Astros traded him for 38th MLB ranked prospect and a reliever Pruitt for a rental; signed with BlueJays), Bard (wasn't traded by Rockies, still under contract through this year but def can be traded this year), & Michael Fulmer (also not traded by Tigers). So like, who could've realistically gotten without shelling out the farm? Maybe Garcia? And offseason, like I said, of the two pitchers with a high K%, Graveman and Garcia, we got Garcia. --- Miami has 4 arms - Tanner Scott (who they absolutely fleeced out of Orioles for trades of two prospects, but Scott has been very inconsistent in his Orioles career; just putting up elite numbers this year), Steven Okert (signed in 2021 to MiLB contract - another McHugh situation, didn't play 2020 cause didn't want to get 'with the covid protocols'), Cole Sulser (same with the Tanner Scott trade), and finally Tommy Nance (despite having a blistering 13.3 K/9 and an upper 90 whiff%, he sports a 6.16 ERA, and a WHIP of 1.737) So what? You think we missed out on Tanner Scott trade? You think Os would trade inter-divisionally when they are gearing up to compete in a few years? Would you have given up prospects for a career 4.67 ERA pitcher (6 seasons), with a WHIP of 1.508 just cause he has a strikeout rate of 12.4/whiff% of 91 when he was traded? You're right about Seattle. They have Paul Sewald (2.6 ERA, 0.723 WHIP, 9.1 K; who was signed to a MiLB contract after having 4 abysmal years with Mets - 9.5 K/9, 5+ ERA, WHIP of 1.25), Penn Murfee (drafted by Seattle in 2018), Andres Munoz (traded to Mariners from Padres in a deal whose centerpieces were France and Nola; Munoz was not doing well in Padres minors after Tommy John, but he has 13.3 K/9 rate after coming to Mariners; huge injury risk and has 4.00 ERA, 1.3 WHIP, 4 BB/9), Diego Castillo (know all too well cause of the Rays; surprising trade that no one saw coming to get JT Chagrois - hasn't pitched much at all and IF depth since the Adames trade; again, doubt they'd trade within AL East), Matthew Festa (2016 Draft by Mariners), Erik Swanson (trade with Yankees where they sent Paxton to the Yankees in 2018 when we weren't even thinking of contending), Danny Young (12.3 K/9 but has 7.36 ERA, 2.455 WHIP, injured - and he was drafted by the Jays in 2015 first), Ken Giles (also was in Toronto from 2018 - 2020 - we traded Ozuna for him, posting elite K rates 14.1 K/9 in 2 of the last two years; went Tommy John surgery and we didn't want to resign him for the contract Mariners gave him 3.5M/y), Yohan Ramirez (10.8 K/9, but 7.56 ERA with 1.560 WHIP; traded to Indians this year for Santana to fill the injury of France). So again, who do you think we would've gotten? Seattle took risks on two TJS players, got something good from Paxton trade, and otherwise drafts. --- This is literally what I mean. You can't just say "X team got it, why didn't we?" without literally going into details. Just because we need them does not mean they are available. Sometimes, teams pick up low-value assets and they turn extremely lucky (Rays last year) and also not (Mariners, Rays this year). How many of these MiLB signings or post TJS signings didn't work out? We'll never know 'cause they aren't here in the majors. Unless you unequivocally have proof that there was an elite swing/miss arm available to Atkins on a platter, and he decided to do a 180 and go after a trickshot pitcher, stop assuming Atkins flat out ignores BP as a principle. We have pitchers like Bowden Francis in our pipeline who we got from Brewers (when we got him, he had a 10.44 K/9 in AA, currently struggling in AAA), Adrian Hernandez (who posted a 15.7 K/9 in A/AA, and so far in AAA - 12.6 K/9), we brought up Max Castillo who is a swing/miss guy (10+ K/99 in AAA from Venezuelan league that we signed) Other pitchers in our farm that are struggling but we'll see what happens: Fitz Stadler (12.88 K/9 in AAA), Graham Spraker (10+ K/9), Gabriel Ponce (10+ K/9), Jose De Leon (I think he was a dodgers draft but Atkins signed him to MiLB deal - 12.6 K/9 in AAA and MLB during his one stint with LAD). --- Am I letting Atkins off the hook? f*** no. I was skeptical af about the Berrios trade and the contract thereafter. Kikuchi was w.e, he'll be gone in 3 yrs and we just lose money. Bullpen is 100% an issue, but we are not that far away from a good bullpen. We are missing two elite relievers (your Anderson/Fairbanks or Holmes/King combo). Could we have gotten someone good at last year's deadline? Sure, but they were all rentals and giving up the prospects those teams gave up for a rental relief hurts my soul. I rather have us do the Nick Anderson type deal (which again, this year would be something like Jansen for Brown + Abreu) that Rays did than the Hudson trade Padres did. Could we have gotten someone before this year? We did, in Garcia. It wasn't enough but given what the hell was out there (I mean, Kenley Jansen?!) and available to us, it was good that we got someone even signed. Anyway, this is my essay on this bullpen s***. lol. Exhausted going through all this history.

This is such a bad way of looking at things though and you'll always be disappointed. Teams are run differently by different FOs. Atkins is not going to copy/paste the Yankees FO because its different markets, different atmospheres and different available players. If you actually break down Yankees BP to our BP KK/9, the outliers are Holmes/King. Short of that, we have comparable alternates to them - only two relievers have 1 extra K/9 (Castillo/Green v Garcia/Mayza). Like did you know, Trevor Richards has 10.36 K/9 across almost 30 innings pitched? More than every single Yankees reliever K/9 except King? Our relievers have 50 extra innings compared to the Yankees. Yankees predominantly used King/Holmes (34%) while we peppered our usage across every one (only two relievers above 30, Trent being the most at 32). Telling you man, our BP sucks because 1. two-three arms who straight up suck (just don't have the pitches to be relievers in AL East) 2. some who have forgotten how to not walk people/locate (especially Romano of late - he f***ed up his release point for slider and is paying the price) 3. unlucky/injuries/overuse/mismanagement But we also had some good things like Gage, Cimber (even though his ERA is close to 4), Castillo Swing/miss would be great in high leverage situations and we need them but the lack thereof is not due to Atkins actively going "well we don't need good relievers". They are trying, 100%, to find the key amazing Jesus arms that you desperately want and they are using their resources as best they can - but relief arms are a crapshoot every year and consistent ones are locked up. It is not simply straight up "oh lets sign cause we need" when there's nothing on the market. I promise you Graveman would've been a Jay if there was no restriction because he was drafted by the Jays in 2014 before being traded to Oakland for JD in 2015. So Jays know what he is capable of. Yimi Garcia was the next best option. And as Terminator said, we weren't going to buy big on relief arms before we even unlocked our contention window in 2020. We tried to see what we needed in 2021, got some arms on deadline - the best we could with the prospect/player/capital we had, and it wasn't enough (I mean Brad Hand came over from Nationals for Riley Adams and he absolutely sucked; ERA before the Jays? 3.59, after the Jays? 2.70; with the Jays? 7.27 || Now Riley Adams is bad but at the time he was our 17th prospect) Same with Richards - before coming to the Jays last year? 11.65 K/9, 1.4 HR/9, 3.69 ERA, 3.72 xFIP (swing/miss) | Since coming to the Jays? 4.79 ERA, 5.11 FIP, 10.31 K/9 Everyone's like "omg we traded Tellez and got fleeced" and its like, he was a good reliever we were getting at the time for someone we had no spot on this team for since moving Vlad to 1st base. Unless everyone thinks it would've been smarter to keep Vlad at 3B and Tellez at 1B instead of Vlad/Chap in corners or unless people thought Tellez would've gotten us Daniel Hudson or some s*** and Atkins went "nah, lets get Grandpa Richards instead". --- People are already inquiring on trades across the league and I am sure Atkins is on the phone asking around too. Its not magically going to fall from the sky because we need it/needed it. Unlike others, I don't think we nuke our farm for a one-off reliever, instead, as you said, build a pipeline. That's why I am all for Jansen to Astros for Hunter Brown and Abreu. However, I don't know what Atkins will do - he could just pull the trigger on some combination of Moreno/Groshans/Martinez/+/+ to Pirates for Bednar + Reynolds or to Royals for Staumont + Benintendi or to Cubs for David Robertson/Scott Efross + Happ. I remember when AA traded Syndegaard and D'Arnaud for RA Dickey because he had 3 good years in NL East at ages 35-37. That trade still haunts me. Or trading Hoffman and Castro for Tulowitzki (both good relievers now btw). And nothing really came out of those trades. Sure we got to ALCS and lost both times, but we burned the farm and dropped out of contention for 4 yrs cause of those trades.

Fair but Yankees only overhauled their pitching system 3 years ago. Weird that Matt Blake (Yankees pitching coach right now) was under Shapiro in Cleveland but Shapiro didn't bring him over - literally changed the outlook of Yankees pitching over the last 2 yrs. And I agree, the pitching is suffering and as I said before - if Berrios isn't fixed before this year is done, Pete Walker is getting fired. That contract is way too heavy for someone to not take responsibility. --- Anyway, my point is - yes our BP sucks because we don't have a lights-out dude or dudes. All we need is two, that's it. More importantly, we also need a competent f***ing manager who does not overuse the bullpen because he wants to be the Rays; more immediately, not have two of our f***ing starters going <4 IP every time they are out. Stripling has finally settled in (so thank god we don't have 3 starters going < 4 IP anymore) but that stretch where he had a pitch cap on cause he was being stretched out was very hard on the BP. --- Lets look at Yankees. They have Michael King at 1.4 WAR (2.32 FIP) and Holmes at 1.3 WAR (1.68 FIP). That's it. Everyone else has been average - Peralta, Green, Leutge, Marinacchio, Castro, Abreu, Sears, Weber, Schmidt, Chapman (negative WAR lol), Loaisiga. Not counting Chapman/Loaisiga or the top two, the combined WAR of the relief corps: 1.3 WAR Lets look at Jays. Our highest is Phelps at 0.6 WAR (2.50 FIP), and then Garcia at 0.4 WAR (3.44 FIP) Romano & Cimber at 0.4 WAR, 0.2 for Thornton and Merryweather, Mayza at 0.2, and then you have Saucdeo and Richards (-0.6 WAR, yikes, 5.79 FIP) in the negatives. Not counting Saucedo/Richards or the top two, the combined WAR of the relief corps: 1.3 WAR All our FIPs are higher than the Yankees' but our xFIP is lower - fatigue? overuse? yips? umps? who the f*** knows And so if we had another pitcher or two at < 2.5 FIP, we'd be pretty much in the same spot as Yankees re: BP But you genuinely can't expect every team to have a King/Holmes combo - they just absolutely lucked out on a 2.7 WAR relief pitcher duo.

That's fair but King was a starter at the time of the trade with 4.11 ERA. When he was brought up to the majors, he had 7.76 ERA over 9 starts - sent back down, turned into a reliever, came back and posted a 3.55 ERA in 22 relief appearances, 1.3 WHIP. Not elite in any sense of the word. This year he turned it on. So King took roughly 3 yrs of work and no one thought he was a reliever to begin with because his entire development was of a starter. If Pearson stayed true to the course, he'd exactly be on the same track as King. We don't know that though; it might seem that way, but again we can't assume Atkins just completely ignores fast hurlers for trickshot pitchers. We can simply say, we ended up this way and it f***ing sucks. Like 100% sure Atkins tried to get Kendall Graveman, but guess what - he couldn't sign 'cause not vaxxed. Not in Atkins hands. Loup? Thank god we didn't sign him, but would you have given up 16 f***ing million for Loup? Iglesias - signed a 4 year deal with LAA considering he is 32, there is no way it was smart to outbid that contract. Everyone else ahead of Yimi Garcia from last year in WAR and in free agency? not swing/miss pitchers. And most below him? Doing badly or signed MiLB deals. We basically took the best pitcher on a good contract that turned out to be swing/miss because he chose to come here and picked us. Also why would they go look at Trevor Rosenthal if they are not interested in swing/miss But most bullpen arms that are on the market are one-off results; trades of bullpen arms that are consistent require you to absolutely abolish your farm; and teams that have built these consistent swing/miss arms (like Hader) aren't going to trade them. Like unless Pirates get a super f***ing haul, I guarantee you they are gonna extend Bednar.

The data is right there though. Just because we need something does not mean its available You stated 36 swing/miss relievers are with the top teams, did we have a single chance in hell to sign them or trade for them? Were there country restrictions in play, money/years of control in play that we didn't want to risk, better prospect capital from other teams on the trade? If we can't identify the specific instances where we let go of a potential superstar elite bullpen player, and just keep saying "we need them, so why didn't they sign them", you'll never really get answers. Its like, why didn't Verlander sign with Toronto? Same contract as Houston, outbid the Yankees yet JV decided to stay there. We signed Yimi Garcia and he is a swing/miss reliever. And he is on a good salary, that was also offered by another club but he came here - so why didn't Yimi sign with them? Is the other FO s*** too? Other than Yankees, Dodgers, Astros, Mets, and maybe Twins, every other contending team needs bullpen arms (are they all s***? none of them have aspirations of winning or see the clear difference of what is needed?) And every single season, most teams want bullpen arms by deadline --- Hell f***ing Padres lost a 6-0 lead to Diamondbacks and lost the game because of not enough swing/miss relief after exhausting it the night before. Hader is struggling of late even though he is the best swing/miss reliever in the game possibly (maybe Holmes beats him now) Chapman a premier swing/miss pitcher has had monumental collapses Bednar has struggled of late Holmes has given up runs to Rays Os BP collapsed today with two of their swing/miss pitchers getting shelled Staumont from KC, that we so aggressively want according to many baseball pundits, has like 3.6 something ERA (and 3.25 FIP; 4.56 xFIP) - (Worse than Phelps, Cimber, Mayza, Romano, Thornton, Garcia etc...) Like you honestly think Atkins looks at the roster and goes "Well s***, we'll be okay without a true hurler"? And everyone here is like "get bullpen help" and I am like - s*** doesn't magically drop out of the sky. You have to sell farm for Bednar because everyone is going to go after him, and then what if he f***s up like he did against the Rays & Dodgers and almost against Giants - you'd feel good about the trade then possibly giving up two of your top prospects? KC trade maybe but those relievers have been getting shelled of late and Yankees are favorites to land a Benintendi trade package that could involve one or two of those arms. Maybe trade for Jorge Lopez from Os who's having one stellar year (but history of s*** years) - and then next year, when he's s***, we'll all be back here going "omg, Atkins needs to do better" We can't be pretending Atkins had a shot to sign Edwin Diaz but, with pure cognizance, said 'nah, I'll go for Richards instead'. That is delusional and unfair to the administration.

Kay so you wanna start a "fire Atkins" protest outside Rogers Centre? Let me know when, I'll come join.

Nope. It was at the cut off man by the time he reached 3B.

COME ON SPRINGERRR WALK US OFF cf.

HELL YA BIGGIO. cf

We have no one left lol