SantosLHalper21

When you tell your fans you want to work on starting pitching and nabbing a second basemen to help out with the offence and when you deliver NOTHING...no wonder the fans don't show up. Add to it the cost of concessions at the Rogers Center, the terrible baseball weather Toronto is having, and of course, the s***** year the Jays had last year...the attendance will be down...no doubt about it.

Liam Hendriks getting the call-up I figure

To clarify, the non-starter comment was meant as the White Sox GM...Sale is likely one of the only untouchables on that roster. We ain't getting Sale...not for Rasmus at least.

Going to try this again..with Colby Rasmus set to become a free agent at the end of the year, and with Anthony Gose playing in centerfield right now, I personally think Rasmus is the Jays' best trade chip as the team searches for another capable starting pitcher...somewhere. I feel the lineup has more flow with Gose as a CF. He can bat 9th, provide speed at the bottom of the order, and of course be used as a pinch runner in a pinch if he's on the bench. His ability to cover centerfield is huge. I just never liked the idea of Rasmus/Lawrie/Navarro hitting 7/8/9, well down from where they should be hitting 5/6/7 on many other teams in the MLB. With JA Happ and a massive ? manning the 4th and 5th starting spots, and the rest of the starters pitching one spot ahead of where they should be (Dickey a #1, should be a #2 etc), the need for a pretty good starter is needed with the Jays. You win games by slamming homers, you win championships with great pitching. The Jays are close, even with the rotation they have now. I can only imagine where they'd be if they took a small hit in the lineup to shore up their starting pitching. The trade market for Rasmus I think is pretty great to be honest. Currently Rasmus ranks 9th in the MLB for center field OPS amongst qualified centerfielders, so he's got some value. Teams that could use a centerfielder... Cincinnati- Hamilton could shift to left field or shortstop. I'd target a guy like Mike Leake, Mat Latos, or Tony Cingrani. San Diego- Wil Venable worst OPS in the game for qualified CF'ers, Cameron Maybin a yearly injury risk. Ian Kennedy maybe? Boston- Jackie Bradley just ain't cutting it, I would avoid trading Colby there though. Clay Buccholz, Jon Lester (doubt it) could be available. Atlanta- Speaking of being useless, BJ Upton even with glasses still can't hit the ball. Would love to get Santana, but Atlanta likes where they are now even with Upton. Chicago Cubs- Bonifacio can shift wherever. Could Jeff Samardzija become a Blue Jay with Rasmus and prospect(s) as the foundation? Chicago White Sox- Adam Eaton could shift to left field, Viciedo to RF, and Sierra to the bench. No real White Sox starter I'd target other than the non-starter Chris Sale. New York Mets- Doubt the Jays could get anything of value, but Jon Niese might be available for the right price. Doubt they trade their best starter. Bartolo Colon could be there . Kansas City- Dyson/Cain doesn't really strike fear into a lineup. Not really interested in Vargas or Guthrie though. Cleveland- Michael Bourn is a shell of his former self. Could have some interest in Masterton if available. Seattle- Rasmus' game doesn't really fit in well there though. Too much field to cover, stadium not conducive to home runs. Texas- Massive potential here, but sadly they don't have a healthy starter I'd target other than Darvish. Like I said, this is likely the best trade chip the Jays have...outside of their prized prospects. If Rasmus is dealt for a pitcher, where's the best destination for him.

They can't recall Gose because it hasn't been 15 days since his last demotion. Its why Jenkins was recalled for Wagner instead of Wagner being called up. Once those 15 days are up, Gose should be recalled and staying in Toronto. They need his D and speed on the bases far more than having a righty to matchup against a lefty.

Jenkins recalled...Santos to DL Diaz recalled...Getz DFA'ed, Jays recalled Diaz because they are more confident with him playing SS over Goins or Kawasaki...at least what I'm thinking.

Isn't this a Forum? f***ing idiots again have no use for discussing something that is becoming apparently clearer and clearer by the day, but nope..you guys ain't having it. I guess if I copy and paste Minor League Affiliate boxscores each day I'll be of more use to you bigots. Don't worry I'm done making threads. Anytime I want to discuss things that need to be discussed..you all claim I'm an idiot with no baseball knowledge. Fact is..the Jays have lost MANY games this season because the bullpen was mismanaged. Of course after a 5 game winning streak..nothing Gibbons does is wrong right now, so you guys have your lips around his cock. Congrats losers, you lose another potential poster and contributor because all you do is try and rag on new guys who just want to get the ball rolling and discuss something different. No good for nothing this forum. What a waste of energy even creating an account if the people around here genuinely dislike new people that make threads about something worthwhile discussing. Y'all are worse than grade school kids.

This is all on the manager here. With Santos already pitched 15 pitches in the 6th, Gibbons drags his ass out for the 7th, where expectedly he struggled, leaving the game with the bases juiced and 2 outs. Of course he brings in Delabar to relieve him in a very tight situation and Delabar lays another egg. Why on earth is Gibbons constantly giving his bullpen guys too much leash? Santos should've got the inning and that was it. A clean inning is not only good for the team, but good for Sergio's confidence. What does Gibbons do? Drag him out for the 7th and take him out far too late. Bring in another cold reliever in a bases loaded jam and expect him to get them out of it. Cure: Start Delabar in the 7th and go with Cecil in the 8th. At least if you have to go with Cecil in the 9th, Cecil has had some starting experience and could conceivably pitch 2 innings. I've always said if you can afford to have your bullpen to come in to start innings, its far better than having them warm up quickly and come into a game. This loss is not only due to Garrett Richards filthy sinking fastball, but its also due to terrible bullpen managing again by Gibbons. The Jays won 5 games in a row because Gibbons didn't mis-manage the bullpen. He rarely went with 2 relievers in one inning and only once tried his hand at getting more than 1 inning out of his relievers. Twice in 5 games the Jays had to go to 2 relievers in an inning. Stick with what works. Have the bullpen come in with nobody on base, or to start an inning. The Jays will be successful as a result.

So is Redmond, or Happ... or Wagner/Loup for 2 IP. I don't get it..its as if I said trade Jose Bautista for Russ Adams around here...Rogers isn't that good...get used to it.

I rarely message here because I try to create discussion but I get turned down by f**king idiots who'd rather look at my post count. Yeah I average 1 message every two weeks...who cares! Punt Rogers...I don't care...its not as if I'm saying punt Alex Rios...which btw was done by a former GM of the Jays. There is no need for Rogers. I don't care if he can start games. We have at least 4 god damn starters in the BP/AAA that are better than Rogers in Redmond, Stroman, Nolin, Sanchez, Drabek, and Romero.

Fine call him up and throw him on the DL. Call up Bobby Korecky, Rob Rasmussen, Ryan Tepera...someone! After Tolleson's gaffe in the OF I'd like to see Mastroianni called up for Getz soon too...the need for a 4th OF seems needed too.

With 2 long relievers in the bullpen already (Redmond and Stroman/Happ), I feel there is no need for Esmil Rogers on this team. In a 12-3 game, he cant manage to get through Galvis, Gwynn Jr, Rollins and Revere without allowing runs which is pretty pathetic if you ask me. He provides no long relief as he's prone to giving up runs in bunches, which also means he doesn't allow for the Jays bats to hit them back into games. His control is iffy, and his fastball gets hit. He has to rely on his slider for strikeouts and right now, that's all he's getting. Cut ties with him, go to Wagner and allow Stroman to be the long man in the pen. No use making him a 1-inning guy out of the pen. Get him into that Carlos Villanueva role with the team before he gets to accustomed to being a 1-inning reliever. I literally cringe when Rogers comes into the game...even in a 12-3 game.

Yeah the greatest thing about Dickey is he doesn't have a UCL...the ligament that is shredded when a pitcher needs Tommy John surgery. Gibbons has no clue how to manage a pen. He didn't years ago when he got into it with Ted Lilly...he still doesn't have a clue today.

I can't for the life of me figure out how he still has a job. Here's my list of mistakes AA has made as a GM for the Jays. Misses -Trading Aaron Hill and Johnny Mac for Kelly Johnson. Likely will go down as one of the worst deals in Jays history. -Trading Noah Syndergaard and Travis D'Arnaud for "E"RA Dickey. Questioned the move when it was made, don't question it now. One of the worst deals in franchise history. -Trading Mike Napoli for Frank Francisco. Napoli would go onto bat .320 and crush 30 home runs in 113 games that season for the Rangers while Francisco only lasted one season with the Jays. -Trading Roy Halladay for Kyle Drabek, Anthony Gose and Travis D'Arnaud (albeit its still up in the air) -Signing Maicer Izturis to a 3yr/10million dollar deal and playing Ryan Goins ahead of him. -He traded away Francisco Cordero (high five!), but in turn had to trade away Asher Wojciechowski who looks legit, Carlos Perez (very good defensive catcher with good OBP), Joe Musgrove, Kevin Comer, and David Roillins. He took on the massive contract of JA Happ in a futile attempt to acquire another starter. Now stuck with the contract, Happ is the Jays' 6th starter. Lyon was probably the best part of the deal for Toronto and wasn't resigned by the team following the 2012 season. He managed to gouge the farm system in the process. -Including almost every top prospect the organization had in the Winter of 2012 in an attempt to trade for a World Series. Jays turned around and got spanked by the MLB and went from a top 5 prospect system to a bottom 5 in the matter of one winter. -Letting Rajai Davis go via Free Agency and replacing him with Moises Sierra, whom he has now lost via waivers to the Chi Sox. Davis brings an element of speed to the lineup, and currently leads the Tigers in AVG and SB. -Letting David Carpenter go in the deal with John Farrell. After he was brutally assaulted in his time in Toronto to the tune of a 30.38 ERA, he went in the trade to the BoSox then to the Braves and has been an instant hit in that bullpen. Last season he finished the year with 65 IP and an ERA of 1.78, BAA .198, and a 0.99 WHIP, along with a 10.0K/9IP line. For a crashing Jays pen in need of a power arm, letting go of Carpenter too early looks like a dumb move. -Mike Aviles and Yan Gomes for Esmil Rogers. Aviles is a decent 2B/SS backup, much cheaper than Izturis and a better defender. Meanwhile Gomes has stolen the starting C position away from Carlos "Black Magic Woman" Santana. SMH..all I can say. -Alex Rios, a career .290+ hitter let go on waivers and acquired by the Chi Sox due to hitting under .200 to start out the 2009 campaign. Jays elect to not negotiate a trade and lose Rios for nothing. Rios has gone on to hit for AVG with the White Sox and a tidy 3.0+ WAR in 4 seasons with the Sox. Now hitting .327 this year with the Rangers. - Emilio Bonifacio- Mr. Versatility, Mr. E4 on the Jays is currently hitting .343 with the Cubs with 10 SB. He was also pretty good with the Royals. Break... Some Hits Trading Vernon Wells' Contract, The Marlins deal, Lawrie for Marcum, Getting Rajai Davis for Farquhar, and Magnuson, Signing Melky Cabrera, Rasmus Trade, and signing Dionar Novarro and letting JP walk, drafting Marcus Stroman, trading League for Morrow, Thames for Delabar. Back to the negativity.. Drafting -Taking Deck McGuire 11th overall in 2010, ahead of the likes of Chris Sale, Mike Foltyniwicz, Christian Yelich, Zach Cox, Jesse Biddle, and Zach Lee -Taking Chad Jenkins 20th overall in 2009, ahead of Kyle Gibson, Mike Trout, James Paxton etc -Taking James Paxton 37th overall in 2009 and not signing him. -Taking Tyler Beede 21st overall in 2011 ahead of Kolten Wong, Alex Meyer, and Rob Stephenson. Beede elected to not sign with the Jays. Beede could be a top five pick in the 2014 Draft apparently. -Taking DJ Davis 17th overall in 2012 ahead of Mike Wacha, Lucas Sims, Corey Seager and Marcus Stroman -Taking Phil Bickford 10th overall in 2013 and not being able to sign him. -That's THREE top 21 picks taken and not signed. Like all good teams do, you must draft well. Anthopolous hasn't hit the mark at the drafts yet. -Saying and Not Doing. Expecting and Not Delivering. "We need upgrades at starting pitching and second base" -Ervin Santana fiasco this offseason. Players willing to defer salary just to bring him in. Elected to spurn Jays and sign with the Braves and has been lights out. -Not signing one free agent starter available. Garza, Santana, Jimenez, Tanaka etc -Yu Darvish and not really being in the race. See how that turned out? -Almost forgot...hiring John Gibbons...again.. to manage this team. All of this is off the top of my head, there's obviously more where that came from. So Why? Why does this guy still have a job with the team? There's mistakes and then there's glaring mistakes, and I'm sorry, but most of these are GLARING mistakes. They are directly responsible for the demise of the Jays team. For the amount of good he has done, the mistakes clearly outweigh the hits he's had. Unless something changes soon, Anthopolous should be fired immediately. This is just getting old fast. Any more I forgot for mistakes boys?

I personally think that you look to trade a handful of players such as Gose/Rasmus (make a decision on one of them..which guy is your long term center fielder), Drabek, Happ, Rogers (release?), Lind and possibly Morrow. You bring in the likes of Janssen when healthy, Stroman, Nolin, Wagner and Stilson and hope for the best. AA failed in bringing big names to town...whether it was Santana, Darvish, Tanaka or Garza...elected to stay the course and rely on his in-house staff. How's that decision fairing for you?

John Gibbons might be the biggest failure for a manager I've ever seen in my life. He needs to be fired soon and here's why.. -McGowan cruising, serves up a double to Gordon in the 7th and then is yanked in favor of Delabar, who promptly mislocates and gives up a 2-run shot to Perez. -Brings in Cecil and takes him out with two on, in favor of Santos...who promptly gives up a 2 run single to Sal Perez in following inning. -With a lefty at bat, he brings in the useless Esmil Rogers who promptly gives up 3 runs and the once 5-2 lead now turns into a 10-5 deficit in an inning of baseball. Rogers might be the worst option you could bring in..much rather have seen Happ or Loup personally with a lefty at the bat in Aoki. My feelings on what Gibbons should've done... All could've been avoided had he went with Aaron Loup to open the 7th inning to face Gordon (LH), Perez (RH), and Moustakas (LH). What I feel the problem is with the Jays bullpen is that they come in with RISP or with a runner at first. Problem with that is it adds extra pressure. Open the inning with your bullpen Gibbons. If you're not confident in your starter to finish the inning, why not call it 6 IP and bring in Loup to face those guys. Then you go Delabar/Cecil in the 8th depending on where they are in the lineup and then Santos in the 9th. But nope...elects to go McGowan on a short leash and bring in Delabar with a runner at 2nd and the game gets torn out of McGowan's hands...who actually was pretty damn good tonight...too bad Gibbons blew it for him. I knew all was screwed after the reaction by Cecil when he was taken out. Gibbons decisions are now being questioned by the players...at what point do you just fire the man and move on?

What else did Aaron Hill provide in that season he hit .206...home runs and pop outs. JPA provided HR's and K's. The only difference is Hill at least made contact. With a new hitting coach and philosophy of playing gap to gap, I thought because of Arencibia's great opposite field power, that he could not only hit home runs, but hit for extra bases to the opposite field. I thought Seitzer could've brought out the best in Arencibia, even if he struck out 130+ times next season, but still hit .240 with 25+ HR's and 75+ RBI's and likely 30+ doubles. JP's power was better than ARod's in high school (HGH enduced or not), and produced well in the minors, minus one awful PCL season. He returned the following year and hit .301 with Vegas. I'm sorry, but giving up on a youngster 3 years into his MLB career, whom has enormous power potential..just makes no sense to me. Fine Navarro is around, that's great. What I wanted was Navarro to PUSH Arencibia to be a slightly more patient hitter, and a better player overall. Again, I'm out to lunch according to you armchair baseball experts.

This is a message board, I thought its sole purpose was to create discussion. Sorry for thinking that dealing away a top 3 prospect catcher of the future for Dickey and making JPA the full-time catcher meant he WASN'T the catcher of the future. Can't create discussion threads...it seems I have to have links to articles on the Jays going after a legit 2B to garner any respect from you guys around here.

After the Jays declined their option on JP Arencibia, the wheels got turning and I got this bad feeling JP Arencibia may come back to bite the Jays in the rear end and end up turning his career around somewhere else. Yes he's a bad game caller and yes he needs work defensively, but to be honest, that can all be worked on. With the proper defensive coach, Arencibia could be an average defender anywhere in the majors. As for his bat, much like Hill who couldn't hit a beach ball in his final year with the Jays, Arencibia struck-out more times than Pee-Wee Herman at the Playboy Mansion. Like Hill, Arencibia was a first-round draft pick with loads of potential, and both can be argued, were given up on far too soon. Both batted near or below the Mendoza line in their final year with the Jays and after that, were given up on. At least with Hill, the Jays were able to fetch a decent asset in Kelly Johnson, who elected to bail on the team as a free agent. I'm hoping he finds the right set of coaches to properly help him along the way. I'm not predicting all-star numbers, but I can seriously see a .240 avg with 30 HR and 85+ RBI's with the right set of coaches. I sincerely hope for the best with him, but I'm getting this bad feeling we may be giving up on him too soon. From catcher of the future, to nothing in one season...seems very peculiar.

Wow never knew this was going to get so much flack. I never said to qualify him If we can get him on a decent deal of 2.5, I say sign him. He still has some value...and don't use age as an excuse for his speed being on the decline. Rickey Henderson stole over 66 bases with Oakland at the age of 39. 37 the following season. I mean its not 100 like in his earlier years, but its far above the league average. I feel like Davis has the ability to swipe 100 bases in a season if given the playing time, and the green light from Gibbons. Yes his speed did decline, but it was still miles ahead of the league average. (Henderson) Whatever though, trying to have a decent discussion about the benefits of Rajai Davis apparently has fallen on deaf ears. Whatever.

The Jays as you already know announced today that they have decided to not qualify Josh Johnson, meaning he becomes a free agent. Toronto receives no compensation if he doesn't sign with the Jays. The bigger news I found was that they non-tendered Rajai Davis. Under the new hitting coach who preaches waiting that extra split second and spraying the ball gap to gap, Davis I feel could have been one of the star pupils of Seitzer's team. Davis provides a decent glove, a decent bat, and elite base-running. With Davis hitting 9th and Reyes hitting 1st, it would only give the Jays that much more speed to worry about. Sad thing though is that John Gibbons hates the idea of being creative on the base paths, electing to try and plug them up and hit grand slams, rather than double stealing, delay stealing, or whatever else. Melky Cabrera, hopefully with the offseason surgery he had can return to the level he was playing at pre-Steroid suspension. However, since he was a user, its obvious now he'll be more susceptible to injuries because of it. The Jays winning percentage with Davis was .389, and when he was hurt, it was .524. The Jays 11 game winning streak happened when he was DL'ed. However, that 11 game streak was a result of very good pitching along with timely hitting. It wasn't because Davis wasn't out there. Until he starts hitting righties breaking stuff better, Davis will always be that 4th OF taking hacks against lefties and switch-hitting. If he ever figures out how to hit a breaking ball, he becomes more dangerous than Jose Reyes. I feel under Seitzer, he could very well figure it out, however we may never know. Hopefully they do resign him, but as it stands right now, it looks like the Jays are pooling their resources in going after a starting pitcher or two...which isn't so bad either.

Buehrle should never of been removed from the game. That's on Gibbons for his 100 pitch rule. Go with feel, go with flow. Until Buehrle has the tying run come to the plate...run with the guy. Nope..he brings in an overused, tired arm Brett Cecil and he gets cooked. If not for an amazing play by Lawrie and a terrible call by the first base ump, the Jays would be trailing heading to the bottom of the 8th. Gibbons is a sloppy manager, and is relying too much on basic baseball managing skills...he doesn't think..he just follows unwritten rules...its pathetic.

And there you have it. Three times tonight the Jays had 2 runners on with 1 or 0 out and couldn't drive the runner in. The Rays in the 9th walk, and then go the other way (hit the ball where its pitched), and score the game winning run based on good fundamental baseball. Making the pitcher work and battling from 0-2 down to draw the walk, and then going the other way to advance the runner. It was perfectly executed baseball, and it was another instance which displays why Gibbons was hired and fired in the first place. This guy is not a quality baseball manager. When you pay 120+ million for your team, you don't cheap out on the coaching staff. Right now, the Jays are paying for it.

That wasn't really creative. All he did was try and get his three most dangerous hitters out there in the first inning. The problem I have is that he lives and dies with the long ball, or the extra base hit. The concept of having Reyes, Gose, Pillar, Davis, Buffalo Chicken at 2nd base with 0 or 1 out and not stealing 3rd because...oh..they can get home on a single anyways...is just plain lazy managing. The running game adds so much to your overall attack, and for the Jays...who have a real good blend of speed and power, it really disappoints me to see that only Davis has 15 steals or more this year, when guys like Reyes if healthy, Lawrie, Bonifacio when he was here, and even Izturis should all be in the 15-30 stolen base range.

Something I must admit Joe Madden has plenty of, and Gibby wishes he had. That's creativity. I'm painting a picture right now. Two of your fastest players on your team sit at 1st and 2nd with 1 out. Joel Peralta with a fairly high leg kick and the double steal is not put in place. He had three pitches before Reyes eventually GIDP. I'm getting sick of leaving FAST base runners on the basepaths with less than 2 outs because the manager just doesn't like to steal. It's the main reason why we score runs with Rajai starting games, and its the main reason why they lose games if they order him to stay put, or don't play him in the game. Baseball isn't all about the big jacks, its the small stuff. Running the bases well, sacrificing, and also hitting the ball the other way and moving runners over. It's the one facet of the game offensively the Jays need to do better..and its the small stuff. Unless they want to sign 5 Justin Verlanders to be starters for them, the Jays will need to score runs differently. Get dirty and mix the game up a little bit. I'll never understand Gibby's game calling.