TO1

Control vs Command. Have you ever seen a video of Gray throw anything on a corner consistently? Its all down the middle. I've seen about a dozen already, I didn't need Callis or anyone else to tell me that. Anyone can keep their BB totals down if they throw it down the middle. A lot harder to keep the same BB totals when your throwing to corners. But I'm sure you already thought of that. No need to put me on ignore. I'm done here anyways. Have fun.

I got all the subscription to BA too buddy. Big whuup! Its 1 point of view. I also got them to other sites as well. And not all agree about everything on all prospects. Just b/c you've seen one or two points of view you respect or are not familiar with another person's name doesn't make it a consensus view. I like to add something other than just a cut and past job from 1 or 2 sites. But do your thing. Its all yours now.

Well where is he? The point of the post is that command is more important than just pure stuff. And that if it really were the other way then someone like Rondon would be lights out in the majors. Not sent back down to the minors to try and clean up the command to throw strikes. He's been clocked at 103 multiple times and it did him no good against major league hitters. Its not to say his career is over or anything like that, but that he needs to throw strikes or his stuff will not play up. Fans keep jerking off to a pitcher that throws hard and harder and think he's just going to succeed b/c he throws hard. If you can't spot a pitch then it doesn't matter how hard you throw. Its called a ball and your behind in the count. Yesterday was a prime example in the 10th. Would you rather Lincoln throw 100 and still walk the house? The game ending would have been the same. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results the next time is f***n moronic. Drafting the same type of player is the same thing. Power hitters that can't hit for example. Fandom can't get enough of them. Then they complain when they can't hit. Well what did they expect? I said what I said about Anderson to Gray. 4 pitches vs 2. Gray is said to have a CU. One that he never throws so what's the point of having one? And yes Gray doesn't spot s***. Everything IS down the middle with him, which with his stuff is fine for college, but usually doesn't fly as well in the majors. That is good control. But its not command. And if someone can't understand the difference between the two then that's their issue. I never said stuff wise Anderson > Gray. I said I would rather take Anderson over Gray. I think he's a better pitcher. More pitches to work with and can hit his corners. That's 8 options for a hitter to think about. The likelihood he guesses location and pitch right is minimal. Morrow has the best stuff on the Jays. Should dominate you would think. Has 4 pitches to work with. Only throws FB and SL for some reason, even though he has a very good CB. Only throws to the outside plate. Not much guess work for the hitter. Add in Anderson can reach back for mid-90 and you got something there IMHO. You can push the power thing all you want, even when the majors are riddled with hard throwers that fail. And can even call me an idiot and stupid and all that. But at least Jack Morris and Pat Hentgen have also said the same thing in the airwaves about pitching. Command > Stuff. They must be idiots as well.

Maybe he is making progress, but I still have my doubts when I read stuff like this (below link). It's from at the end of last season so there is some room to grow from when this was published. But Callis makes it sound like he went from a iffy CB at the end of 2012 to Barry Zito's CB in Oakland in 4 just months. I call BS on that one. Everyone I've seen talks about his CB being his 3rd best pitch by a lot behind the FB and CU. And no one I've read takes about his command , especially on the secondaries, as particularly good. We shall see. http://www.coast2coastprospects.com/trey-ball.html "Ball is a lean, lanky, athletic left-hander with serious projectability and intriguing present stuff. A Texas commit, his fastball has been clocked anywhere in the 87-92 range throughout the most recent showcase circuit, but most project an increase in velocity as he further fills out his frame. He has some interesting secondary offerings to go along with the fastball, highlighted by a change-up in the 80-83 range with good fade. He keeps his arm speed very well when throwing the change-up and also shows an inconsistent, but occasionally effective curveball in the 75-78 range. Ball is an excellent athlete and it shows on the mound. He could be the best two way player in this draft, as his speed (he runs the 60 in 6.7 seconds), athleticism and arm strength play very well in the outfield. There’s a bit of effort in his delivery and he doesn’t have great command of any of his pitches at this point, but teams will naturally be intrigued by a lefty of Ball’s caliber."

Are you sure on Wiper? B/c I read something a couple weeks ago that stated he's headed for next years draft. I'm almost certain it was a Perfect Game USA article.

Martinez is not really on anyone's top 100.

That makes 2 of us.

I've been sounding like a broken record for 2 months now on the Frazier\Meadows thing. Frazier is more toolsy in terms of right now, whereas Meadows is more to do with projection. With Frazier you know what your going to get and many of his tools (speed, arm, bat speed, power) don't need to get better to play up very well in the majors, whereas Meadows does need to improve in some areas (power) for him to be a star. Ultimately it will be determined by who actually has the better hit tool and that won't be know until well after the draft. Speed wise it's a wash as their best 60 times are 6.3 vs. 6.4s Frazier has current 6.5 power vs. 5.5 for Meadows Frazier 8 arm vs. 6 for Meadows Hit tool is hard to gauge for both, but Frazier has the bat speed that you just can't teach and Meadows will never have. Both have an all-field approach from what I've read. Frazier has the shorter stroke. Without knowing which guy has the better pitch recognition and which one will be less of a free swinger at the next level (lost my crystal ball) I would put my money on a better hit tool with Frazier at this current point due to his bat speed, all-field approach and shorter swing. Meadows is the better CF. Takes better routs and gets better jumps. He's been a CF his whole life, while Frazier hasn't and will be more suited to RF with his arm. If the hit tool variable were the same for both, Frazier has the louder tools that propel him to be the better overall player. That's why I think Meadows is starting to slip in some scouts eyes. Remember that Frazier came out of nowhere last year and made a name for himself coming into this year. A lot of scouts saw none or very little of him in 2012, unlike this year where everyone's seen him b/c of the buzz he created last year. Meadows on the other hand has been well known in the scouting circles and was crowned since he put on a show for team USA under-17 team. Scouts are sometimes stubborn and crown a kid king and it takes time of seeing other guys for a while to change their minds. It happened with Lance McCullers and Joey Gallo last year as well. They were expected to be close to the top of the 2012 draft after the 2011 season and they dropped hard on draft day. I don't see Meadows dropping anywhere like that, but if doesn't go top 7 it won't surprise me. And that would have been sacrilege in mocks to start off the 2013 season.

If you think you can sign him, pre-draft deal, then go for it. He is the best complete pitcher out there. Problem is I think that he thinks he's entitled to max money regardless of where he's taken and if that's the case move on b/c the Jays will not be able to sign him anyways. Frazier will be long gone (Miami and Boston are hard for the kid) so if Smith is on the board I take him.

Then you'll really hate next year with Beede and Wiper expected to go in the 1st round. Beede probably top 5 as well.

I don't doubt that any HS kid adds natural strength as they leave their teens and enter their early twenties, even without growing. Its just maturing your muscle. I don't know of to many 22-23 year olds that weren't stronger than when they were 17-18, even without a growth spurt (same height, same weight). So I expect all these HS pitchers to get naturally stronger and maybe add a few ticks. The problem is I highly doubt that a kid at 6-6 and only 175lbs will have the stamina to hold that velo deep into games unless he can bulk up. Less stress per unit mass adds endurance and Ball is a bean pole. And bean poles with his thin bone structure usually don't add mass easily. One thing I don't like with a lot of scouting reports on HS pitchers is that they will state what velo a kid sits at and peaks at, but not a word if he can maintain that velo. As for the secondaries, good for him if their coming along, but the fact is that HS guys like a Stewart, Bickford, Harvey, Kaminsky and Clarkin all already have a breaking pitch that are top notch and superior to Ball's. There is less projecting to do and hence less risk with respect to that side of the equation. In terms of velo all 5 guys I just mentioned throw just as hard or harder than Ball. And ultimately all 5 guys will get naturally stronger, as will Ball so to me that's a wash. Ball's secondaries need work just to get to the starting point of where these other guys are already and guys like Kaminsky, Stewart and Bickford command the zone well to boot. With the 10th pick I don't see the need to take a high-upside high-risk pick when I could take a high-upside lower-risk pick where the velo is equal or better, the secondaries are better, command is just as good or better and the weight issue is not an issue. If this was a pick in the 2nd half of the 1st round then fine. Get a high-upside high-risk guy as a lot of the other guys are gone by then. But its not.

At least he's been consistent this week 16K vs 2 BB. His pitch recognition is s***. Everything looks like a FB to him. Why anyone throws this kid anything more than breaking pitches I'll never know. He'll never be a good hitter. You can't teach pitch recognition. You either have it or you don't.

He sucked. 58hits in 42.2 IP and almost another 4BB/9IP have little to do with defence. How is a 1.78 WHIP affected by defence? If there are errors in the field then it doesn't show up in the hit, BB, ER or ERA column. He's well known to fall behind guys way too often and has mechanical issues. That has nothing to do with defence. The reason his FIP was good is that it accounts for the fact that he didn't give up a ton of HRs, but what it doesn't account for is the sheer amount of hits he gave up over 42.2IP. And that's the major flaw with FIP IMHO. There are some poor yearly pitching performances with guys holding a good FIP (3.8 or lower) where they give up a lot of runs, but none where a guy is good with a high WHIP (1.6+).

Your kidding right? 2012 stats - 42.2 IP, 58H, 40ER, 4HR, 18BB, 43SO, 1.78 WHIP, 8.44 ERA. His WHIP alone made Kyle Drabek look like Greg Maddux. Other than a K/IP what did he exactly do well in 2012? And even with that K-rate he still got shelled.

New mock out from May 7. http://sbb.scout.com/2/1289798.html

As bad as Romero was tonight in the majors, Norris gave him a run for his money for futility in the minors. Daniel Norris (L, 0-3) 1.1 IP, 7H, 8R, 6ER, 1BB, 1SO, 1HR, 10.07 ERA. Complete waste of time yet again. The guy is quickly becoming a non-prospect in my book. Only his last game didn't have a line that looked familiar to tonight's line. And it wasn't like he was lights out in that one either. He's even worse this year than he was last year. I didn't think that was even possible.

Phil Bickford over Trey Ball, by a lot. I'm not a fan of Trey. Too raw. Too much to develop for me (secondaries, command, weight). Very thin bone structure, usually very hard to put on weight needed to add velo and hold it deep into games. I don't care about his bat. There are better options at #10 if you want a bat that's more advanced.

He got all this buzz after the Cape going into this year. But he hasn't met expectations this year. Velo down a bit, command has been nothing like it was at the Cape. Some reports I read even question his velo due to some effort in his delivery. I have my doubts on him, when his buzz is mostly based on a sample size of a couple of months over a time that happened a while ago. Not much before and not close after.

Lincon's FB command is s***. He's not even close to where the catcher sets up. He's always off by a foot. Garbage.

I'm under the name TO1 now. Niko10 was my last name from the MLB Jays forum that went to s***.

2nd round I'd be happy with any of the following: Drew Ward, Robert Kaminsky, Travis Demeritte , Chris Okey, Jonah Wesely, Keegan Thompson, Dustin Peterson (DJ Peterson's younger brother), Hunter Harvey or Kyle Serrano. Some would need to slip to get there, but what the heck.

Smith did a lot better at the showcase HR competitions last year than Meadows did. Perfect game USA says his power is already plus, especially to left center field. He is almost impossible to strike out in HS. At the end of the day hit the gym over the next 2 years put on another 15 lbs and there's another 20-30 ft average on fly balls. You can somewhat teach power through workouts over time. But natural hitters are not made, their born. You either have it or you don't. And there is no HS hitter more pure than Smith this year. Perfect game USA and a few others I saw keep stating batting title type hitting skills. That's a lot more rare than power prospects that are a dime a dozen every year and almost none go anywhere b/c they can't make contact to begin with. I like Denney as well, but his game calling and receiving skills are not as advanced as some of the other HS catchers this year, so there is no guarantee he sticks at catcher long term. Right now his glowing reports on defence come on his arm strength (1.8-2.0s pop times to 2nd) more than anything else. Denney's bat is not pure either. He's a huge power guy, with plus bat speed, a short stroke and a good hit tool for a catcher.

Please no Wilson. Another toolsy kid with hit tool questions. I already had enough of that s***. The Jays farm is riddled with guys like that. Maybe not as much power, but the power will never play up unless he hits anyways. Frazier will be long gone by 10. Isn't happening. At #10 pick: Dominic Smith (best HS hitter) Johnathan Denney (best hitting Catcher in draft) JP Crawford (best overall SS in draft) Beede is going top 3 from College in 2014, by everything I've seen lately. Cole Wiper (RHP) was a 14th round pick in 2011 by the Jays that's also expected to go in the 1st round in 2014. Kris Bryant was the Jays 18th pick in 2010 and will go top 10 this year. s*** happens. If guys don't want to sign then their really isn't a thing you can't do about it. Beede had no intention of signing. He wanted 3mil before the draft. Jays offered 1.9 mil (about slot). Then with a week remaining to sign the kid they upped their offer to 2.5 mil and Beede instantly upped what he wanted to 3.5 mil according to Baseball America. So fuk him.

He's great as an analyst. Knows his stuff and that's ultimately what is needed. Some might not like that the guy is actually articulate. I find that really funny when some would rather hear a "No s***" John Madden type only state the obvious during sportscasts. What's the point of having an analyst then?

I'd like to see him succeed too, but he can't command a thing. As bad as his FB command was, his CB command was even worse. Its never anywhere, but in the dirt by a longshot. No one swings at that when you can see its going to be a ball way before it reaches the plate. I just don't see it in him. Especially with such an emotional guy too. You got to block out the last bad pitch you threw and move on. He can't seem to do it. Looks like he fights himself on the mound more than anything else.