connorp

As Laila said, you can’t judge anything from one trade but you can look at the outcomes of a GMs deals and understand if he’s missing something in his processes.

I think most of our disconnect is actually Republican vs Democrat. Democrats typically are adverse to any sort of personal responsibility and I think that’s the disconnect here. You can’t judge trades solely on numbers you pull from Fangraphs. Otherwise any of you nerds could fill in as a GM tomorrow. Let’s take a good recent case study, James Shields/Tatis. The process here is Chicago is competing for a playoff spot and could use an inning eating workhorse.. yes Shields was coming off a bit of a down year for him but I’m sure projections still had him as a quality mid-rotation innings eater. SD will eat half the salary and all they want in return in a 45-50 FV prospect. What is the success rate on those guys objectively speaking? You nerd tell me but I’ll guess less than 10%. So that’s the process man. If Shields goes on to pitch at projections and eat up innings, and Tatis turns into nothing like most of these Toronto intentional guys, that’s a solid process, is it not? However, Shields completely shits the bed and Tatis turns into a generational talent. Should Rock Hahn not to be held responsible for that? For not seeing past FG projections that Shields was cooked, as well as overlooking that he had the most exciting player in baseball under his nose?

Hate it by now lol. What we do for our kids bro. I keep my eye out for select opportunities.

Basically this is what I think of most of you guys when I try to debate lol.

You mean the two rhetorical questions that you went ahead and answered after you asked them? Lol. You’re not keeping up with the whole process vs results thing. So yes, Im going to agree with you that you’re right about everything. And it’s always clear if a deal is warranted or not. So like, if Cavan Biggio was signed to a long term extension like many wanted, you would say “hey, based on his FG data, that was a good decision”.. so I’m going to assume we’ll use FG as the decider if a deal is warranted or not? I mean, most deals aren’t so clear on if it’s good or bad, there’s often differing opinions, so we’ll need some line on the sand. So we can use Fangraphs I guess? Or are you the decider on what’s good or bad when it happens? I’m confused on that part

Yeah even though I’ve said what I said, I’d vote 2 as well. Fire the manager, which they did. Fire some coaches maybe this off-season.. whatever… but if the GM can’t make the moves where they’re at least competing for the division title and not getting swept in the first round again, they’d prob make a change

If the poll taker would’ve done a better job, it would be 1) Keep him 2) Yes keep him, but he’s on thin ice 3) Fire him

Hence I said it was a “ding” not something that is be all, end all. Winning cures bad contracts, losing amplifies them

Sorry this isn’t how pro sports works dude. We’ll just agree to disagree. Even basically Laila is agreeing with me, he’s just saying you can’t judge things by one contract, which I agree with

Of course you can’t make any concrete judgements on the deal now but if it’s still really bad after next year, the only ones being like “it’s ok because it was fair at the time”, is you nerds. That’ll be a big ding for him

Just an extreme example, just pointing out everything is judged in hindsight. In the reverse, same goes for signing a player to a long term deal and they blow up in a good way. They get the credit for that. Was Wells’ deal considered awful at the time? I’m not sure. Looked like a breakout franchise player if I remember right

Not how it works dude. You don’t judge Vernon Wells’ and Chris Davis’ contracts by “they seemed fair at the time, can’t fault them”

Yeah I assume that’s what it is. You can’t punish the players, so first you fire the manager/coaches…next comes the GM. Sometimes same time if it’s dumpster fire but franchise operations seems sold enough where TNT isn’t required

No sentimentality in these decisions. One more year to make it happen or get someone else who can get them over the hump. Thanks for getting it off the ground

Danny Ainge made perhaps one of the greatest trades in NBA history, set the Celtics up for long-term success… had a few disappointing season ends in the playoffs once they were a title contender and got shown the door.

The architect of the patented “trust the process” was canned for building a sustained winning roster but not meeting expectations when it came time to

Bull and Bear, bro. Can look at it different ways for sure. 2020 was a team coming out of a retool with playoff expectations in the short season with their prize acquisition Ryu. They got there just barely and were beat both playoff games, but ok. Team on the rise. 2021 sees the big Springer add and legit World Series contender odds. Season is a huge disappointment. Ryu collapses down the stretch, their glaring BP weakness is apparent early and it’s never really solved. They add Berrios as their huge splash but doesn’t result in playoffs. Big downer. 2022- still WS contender odds, one of the favorites. The whole year is a battle. BP issues still go on. Tightens up a little towards the end, but no big acquisitions are made to a team treading water at best most of the season in the playoff race. Can the fact like Ryu, Berrios, and Kooch looking like dead money may have factored into holding tight at the deadline? Don’t forget Randal’s $5m to boot in dead money. Swept in the playoffs again. As I said, I’d give him one more year but the hot seat is justified. Of course there’s some good moves in there. There always is with fired coaches/GM

Also, have to hold them accountable for Kooch. I’m not saying I personally was against it like many were, but it was flaming pile of poo to help take them team to the next level. It added nothing for the regular season, much less did anything to improve their PS prospects. Misused the cash they had to play with there that could’ve been pegged for BP.

Wrong wrong in there Mr. Jester?

Jason Frasor >> Anthony Bass Neither were/are significant to a championship BP.

Sure I may think that all things considered. But there’s still other ways to skin a cat. They sat on Pearson’s value and lost. They traded at a good time with Martin but they bet on the wrong horse for now at least. Could they make the same mistake with Moreno, possible. All those things should be factored in as they develop

Just made other “C” trades again this year that didn’t make any difference whether it was playoff team or not, and couldn’t make a positive contribution when they needed to in the playoffs. Would you really be shocked if Bass is just “ok at best” next year if he’s used in higher leverage I’m happy to bump next year

Haha. Not worth a bump but the OT of the signing the bast majority are like “meh” or it was bad… Laila is all like “sneaky good signing” lol

And Brad Hand was in the middle of a clear down year. They tried the thrifty route, buy low big reward. Didn’t work out. Let’s paint that for what it was Nobody was excited about it. Some were even upset an org guy was given for him. Not a high leverage guy for the AL East.

And as this board often said “Berrios is one of the best SP in baseball”. Pro sports is results. Process is good for getting another job after you get fired. There’s stages and expectations for teams. Wild Card and two game sweep wasn’t a good result They thought they didn’t need any major upgrade at the deadline, not worth paying for. Gotta except the result.