fatcowxlive

http://www.bluejaysmessageboard.com/threads/6914-Favorite-Memories-of-the-2016-Blue-Jays-season

Ah I see, well said

I get that completely, but lets say there's a 3 year deal that Shapiro thinks is good for both teams (I don't think there is, but for the sake of argument lets say there is), and the player you are approaching has an ego and thinks that he can improve himself next year, wouldn't the 3 year + year one opt-out look like either: Bautista accepted the QO (one year deal) or he signed a 3 year deal with the team (if he doesn't opt out). That's IF of course, Shapiro wants Bautista for that long. I personally think that Shapiro won't offer more than a QO (if that)

True but player option usually gets accepted when a player underperforms and thinks he'll get less in the market than what's been offered. Obviously that's stupid. Opt out is effectively a 1 year or a 3 year deal depending on the player

Yeah of course, I don't expect the Shapiro management to be paying players on past performances but for future performances. Whatever they come up with as "fair", taking into account projecting his future seasons based upon this season. Thats how it should be explained to Bautista, "This deal is based on what we think you can do based on the last couple of years, but if you bounce back next year then you can opt-out and we can renegotiate new deal/hit the open market". Worked for Cespedes

I wonder, why hasn't anyone talked about the possibility of offering Bautista a Cespedes-type deal. Not the same $$ amounts, but a 3 (maybe 4) year deal with an opt out after the first year. If he rebounds and wants to test the FA market then he can do so after the first year. Only if he's back as a 1B/DH, I think the injuries really messed him up at the plate.

omg I forgot Matt Holliday is a FA. GET TULO ON THE LINE!! I think as a DH and in the slugging AL East he can revive his numbers

Which is why it is crucial that we sign a lot of them and put Biagini in AAA working on being a starter. Middle relief can easily be replaced, keeping rotation depth is hard

No way that's a done deal, I think he's talking about possible cost, he and Zwelling do that all the time on the morning radio shows (estimating price tags)

Minnesota has a good team? It's good we lead 2-1 then!!!

Aaaaand there goes the lead

Roman Polak!!! Long range goals look so cool

Wow, I'm glad you enjoyed your stay! I like many others on here respected the Indians as an opponent and will cheer for them in the World Series. I hope you decide to stay here, this place is an awesome place but a little diversity to give perspective never hurts (unless you're a dirty Red Sox fan). Good luck in the World Series!

Err? I'm guessing you're joking? Or am I missing something big here? lol

Can we start paying for this? I miss Jose Molina. Perez was a product of Shapiro's system and he's an elite framer this year (I think better than Martin too), I want one as a backup, because if we're not getting offence off the bench might as well get defence from that catcher's slot. Jason Castro is the best framer I think in the FA market right?

Er I think that goes without saying, offence pays defence doesn't. If Pillar was a free agent today, I'm willing to bet that Ian Desmond gets WAY more than him, despite overall (according to fWAR, so take it how you want to) providing the same value.

The only issue is, what's there to spend on? The FA market is stupid, and I doubt Shapiro would be the one to give Edwin that huge deal just so we can look good. The key is gonna be the trade market and I'm not sure we should be relinquishing as many assets as its gonna take to fill those holes in.

Well he's gonna be a free agent in that huge class I'm talking about. If we can find a way to retool (I think rebuild is too big of a word) and get rid of the older players for some younger talent (while eating lots of money), we'd be competitive enough to stay relevant in the races/to bring fans to the stadium and we'd have at least a better young core to work with when the offseason at the end of 2018 comes. It's just another idea to have, it's going to be hard to get all the pieces we're talking about to remain a potential 87-90 win team without giving up significant youth I would think. We're losing 6 WAR to FA or something like that

It's not a bad idea. I mean think about it, the big FA class is coming in 2ish years. The FO guys know how to draft and rebuild. Best-case scenario is we get 2 picks right? Well we have lots of aging players on the roster too that can net us stuff. Martin can bring something back and so can Tulo (IF we can trade him, he might have a no trade) since we can probably eat lots of money. It would be like a quick 2 year rebuild. Estrada and Happ can net us a lot, especially since their contracts are looking like bargains. I feel like there's a lot to do, and the biggest asset we have is money during a crappy FA class. I'd rather us not trade our young arms for 30+ year old bats. If Atkins, Shapiro and Cherrington believe they can draft well in the 2 upcoming years, setting up for that huge FA class.... it wouldn't be that bad of an idea. The biggest issue here is the fanbase of course, good luck telling everyone to wait it out a couple of years. We can still field a WC-competitive team in the meantime though.

Not Jansen, he's gonna cost us a pick + the Dodgers will probably outbid us. We'll take Chapman

If you guys think that managers make or break a season I have some bad news for you. Even with how well Francona managed his bullpen situation, put anyone in the Indians dugout that meshes chemistry-wise, they would have won the series versus the Jays. We did s*** against all their pitchers. Miller was just the cherry on top of the pie. But we scored 8 runs in 5 games, and I don't care who you put in our dugout, we'd still lose. Even day-to-day lineups really don't make all that much of a difference. Didn't really see any difference when we flipped Tulo and Martin. And surprisingly enough, no one complained about Martin hitting 5th until the ALCS, and when we crushed Texas, Martin was hitting 5th and Tulo hitting 6th. There are dumb things Gibby does, but so do other managers. I'd rather have a guy who was able to manage a team with so many egos like Bautista, Edwin, Martin, Tulo, etc. and not have them clash with each other throughout the entire season than take a risk on an analytics guy who might not be the best people person.

I don't think it's necessarily hitting homers, but just having less fastball-only hitters. Donaldson I would consider a home run slugger (he's poised for 40 a year basically) but he did well because unlike Bautista and Edwin in the series (well except for Edwin game 4) he actually can adjust and hit the breaking pitches. Maybe though that's the correlation, Baseball's a hard sport and the timing window between identifying a pitch and getting a good hack is very small so home run hitters are more likely to sit on a pitch and zone everything else out. There aren't a lot of Josh Donaldson/Mike Trout/Kris Bryant type hitters

lol but did you hear the part when he was talking about lefties? I think he said 2 or 3 times "We need lefties..... GOOD lefties" aka Saunders and Smoak don't cut it

Gibbon's on the radio with Blair and he said he really wants more balance on the team. He clarified by wanting a couple of good (and he emphasized good lol) left handed hitters and more team speed

I'm going into to throw this out as well, Andrew McCutchen is available this offseason. Votto is probably available as well. Do we pull the trigger on any of these guys?