GDT(1/3): Toronto Blue Jays @ Detroit Tigers - Hutchison vs. Sanchez - 7:08 PM ET

[Sammy225]

Hasn't Wagner been activated from the MiLB DL for awhile now?

 

I didn't think he had but i could be wrong i don't follow Buffalo that closely. I know he was getting reevaluated in Florida and really have not heard much since.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

I agree with Sammy that the jays will likely adopt the approach of bringing him in earlier in games/less important situations whereas McGowan will pitch in the tough situations we expected Delabar to pitch in...imo, he's not struggling enough to send down to the minors & the hope is he'll get it right soon as he's a crucial part of this pen as the games get more & more important...

 

Almost 6 BB/9, horrendous GB%, strikeouts are way down.

 

He's been absolutely terrible. Maybe sending him down isn't the best decision to make but I wouldn't be against it.

 

No excuses. You are a relief pitcher. Throw strikes or you're going to Buffalo.

[Sammy225]

Almost 6 BB/9, horrendous GB%, strikeouts are way down.

 

He's been absolutely terrible. Maybe sending him down isn't the best decision to make but I wouldn't be against it.

 

No excuses. You are a relief pitcher. Throw strikes or you're going to Buffalo.

 

If there was someone down there right now that you could bring up that you don't really have to worry about (Wagner) i would not have an issue with a demotion but right now there is nobody there that you can say we can bring up and he would defiantly be better. I would say have him pitch in blow out games or low stress situations and try to get his mechanics or what ever the problem is in side sessions and see if he can't come out of it.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

If there was someone down there right now that you could bring up that you don't really have to worry about (Wagner) i would not have an issue with a demotion but right now there is nobody there that you can say we can bring up and he would defiantly be better. I would say have him pitch in blow out games or low stress situations and try to get his mechanics or what ever the problem is in side sessions and see if he can't come out of it.

 

We're at the beginning of a pennant race though and we need a RHP arm out of the pen. If he has options send him down and bring him back up in July. If McGowan is tired who are we going to use in the 7th or 8th if we need a RHP? Redmond? That's terrifying.

[eastcoastjaysfan]

Might as well just call up Drabek or Nolin to pitch out of the pen. Makes no sense do continue going with Redmond when we have these other guys down there.

 

If McGowan can succeed in the pen, Drabek can.

[BlueJaysGirl]

I like Drabek in the 'pen. And I agree, Delabar is hurting or something, and will probably go DL once Santos is called up after rehab.

 

You know watching SN yesterday, particularly the beginning of the game, I was getting really worried about Hutchinson. They were making it sound like his decreased velo plus throwing higher up than usual means he's injured, or about to be injured (tacitly implying some TJ-related issues). Maybe I read too much into it. Imagine my surprise when I was able to resume watching in the 8th to discover Hutch had put up zeroes.

[KingKat]

I didn't think he had but i could be wrong i don't follow Buffalo that closely. I know he was getting reevaluated in Florida and really have not heard much since.

 

I edited my post (see above). There's more information here (http://www.bluebirdbanter.com/2014/6/2/5774064/neil-wagner-placed-on-disabled-list-sent-to-florida-for-re-evaluationand) and it seem like you're right and there are no other options. Wagner, Stilson, Rasmussen, Drabek, Nolin, basically everyone who might be a candidate for a call up is banged up right now.

[Sammy225]

Might as well just call up Drabek or Nolin to pitch out of the pen. Makes no sense do continue going with Redmond when we have these other guys down there.

 

If McGowan can succeed in the pen, Drabek can.

 

Nolin i think you can still hold out hope that he can be a back of the rotation pitcher so IMO to early to put him in the pen. As for Drabek... He should have been moved to the pen last season. I don't know why they are still allowing him to start when there is no way he can contribute in our Major league rotation.

[shortstop]

ECJF, he's been a stud in that bullpen & a performer for the jays previous seasons - right or wrong, that is imo a factor in AA's/Gibby's decision (ie. loyalty) making along with how would a demotion to fine tune impact Delabar...and that's without considering whether there's better options at this time in the minors...

 

with that said, there is breaking point...I just don't think the Jays brass is there yet and hope we don't get to it...

[ElNik2013]

Gibbons has already started using Delabar in lower leverage situations and he continues to struggle. He certainly has to pitch to work out his issues. I was thinking he might need to work out his issues at Buffalo as I watched him implode yesterday, but like others have pointed out, Buffalo has been decimated by injuries lately. It certainly shows in their record as they are now under .500. I hope they don't get pissed at the Jays and hold it against them when time comes to renew their deal.

[ElNik2013]

Also, not to nitpick, but can we stop mentioning Nolin as a bullpen option at this point? He will be in the mix for a rotation spot next ST as I'm sure Happ's option won't be picked up. He should continue starting once he's back from his injury.

[Atothe]

I like Drabek in the 'pen. And I agree, Delabar is hurting or something, and will probably go DL once Santos is called up after rehab.

 

You know watching SN yesterday, particularly the beginning of the game, I was getting really worried about Hutchinson. They were making it sound like his decreased velo plus throwing higher up than usual means he's injured, or about to be injured (tacitly implying some TJ-related issues). Maybe I read too much into it. Imagine my surprise when I was able to resume watching in the 8th to discover Hutch had put up zeroes.

 

He got hurt the first time doing the opposite throwing hard. I think its just fatigue. As long as he has good control he'll be alright.

[Solaxys]

ECJF, he's been a stud in that bullpen & a performer for the jays previous seasons - right or wrong, that is imo a factor in AA's/Gibby's decision (ie. loyalty) making along with how would a demotion to fine tune impact Delabar...and that's without considering whether there's better options at this time in the minors...

 

with that said, there is breaking point...I just don't think the Jays brass is there yet and hope we don't get to it...

 

When you have to hold your breath every time he takes the mound, it's way past the breaking point.

[IBTrini]

Almost 6 BB/9, horrendous GB%, strikeouts are way down.

 

He's been absolutely terrible. Maybe sending him down isn't the best decision to make but I wouldn't be against it.

 

No excuses. You are a relief pitcher. Throw strikes or you're going to Buffalo.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. You are usually in for a batter or an inning at most, just throw strikes and let them make the mistakes. You got to warm up in the BP but you cannot throw a strike - Not saying to throw it down the middle but relievers should be whipped for walking hitters unless it is an intentional walk.

[IBTrini]

If there was someone down there right now that you could bring up that you don't really have to worry about (Wagner) i would not have an issue with a demotion but right now there is nobody there that you can say we can bring up and he would defiantly be better. I would say have him pitch in blow out games or low stress situations and try to get his mechanics or what ever the problem is in side sessions and see if he can't come out of it.

That would be a nice option but things do not usually work out that way. You cannot have a reliever in the BP who can only be played in those situations cuz if the situation does not develop often enough it means you may be overtaxing the other arms. Also, how do you determine a blowout game? 5-0, 10-0, 15-0? 5-0 should be enough of a lead to bring in any reliever in my opinion. You walk 2 batters you are automatically pulled cuz you are not doing your job.

[ElNik2013]

Delabar isn't walking batters because he wants to. His mechanics are probably off so this is preventing him from hitting his spots. If it was as simple as saying "I will paint the outside corner with every pitch", Aaron Sanchez would be the #1 pitching prospect in baseball.

[shortstop]

I think in reality he has 2-3 more outings & if they're crap, the line has been crossed in the minds of the jays brass...

 

That breaking point line is different for every pitcher - some get no leeway while others get a lot of rope

[KingKat]

 

That breaking point line is different for every pitcher - some get no leeway while others get a lot of rope

 

Rope is often tied to options.

[shortstop]

Rope is often tied to options.

 

 

agreed, tied to but not the sole factor...

[ElNik2013]

Why do you say this? Just wondering because you've said it a few times now. Last I heard he was long tossing from a 100 feet.

 

 

I say it because of Santos's injury history. He already had a setback recently, but I hope I'm wrong as I think he'd be much better as a 7/8th inning guy.