BigRed

That's not going to happen, lol. Not unless Jose wires him a couple hundred g's. No player on another team is going to risk a suspension because Jose decided to try and take Odor out, and then walked at him and got clipped.

and how many of those times did the runner start walking towards the person they just took out with a late slide with thier chest puffed out? This isn't the first time a punch was thrown in a baseball scuffle, just because he landed flush doesn't make it any worse than all the scuffles where baseball players whiff on 4 punches before getting held down.

what are you guys watching, lol. Bautista was like halfway to the grass from the bag after that ridiculously late slide. He didn't even attempt to stay on the bag, which is a clear violation of the new takeout slide rules. If he almost got hit in the head it's because he was going down as he was nearly at the bag, he should have been well into his slide by that point. A "bona fide slide" for purposes of Rule 6.01 occurs when the runner: (1) begins his slide (i.e., makes contact with the ground) before reaching the base; (2) is able and attempts to reach the base with his hand or foot; (3) is able and attempts to remain on the base (except home plate) after completion of the slide; and (4) slides within reach of the base without changing his pathway for the purpose of initiating contact with a fielder. Bautista was like 4-6 feet past the base after that slide. Made no attempt to stay on the bag. Don't think middle-infielders haven't been told by coaches and umpires about the changes to the takeout slide rules in the offseason. So as a 2nd baaseman you're told guys have to make an attempt to stay on the bag when sliding into second, and a guy slides through you like a bullet halfway to the grass you aren't going to be upset. Not to mention Bautista is the one who started walking to Odor. He could have just walked to the dugout.

Hoping or thinking that the Jays can play at nearly a .700 clip (.694 over the last 62 I think) again over the last 62 games like they did last year is silly though, especially with the Os and Red Sox looking a lot better this year. In all liklihood that's not going to happen - the Jays managed something special last year, and to think they can just flip a switch again is asking for disappointment, They aren't likely to get the morale boost at the deadline like they got last year by adding Price, Tulo, Revere, etc.

The Jays were no better, Chavez went right after Fielder. It's not like they were playing in Toronto and it was the bottom of the 9th when they hit Bautista or something -- the Jays had time to retaliate and Chavez did. Like I said in my original post, it wasn't surprising that it happened (Bautista being pitched at). Dyson / Rangers felt he pimped the HR, so it was probably just a matter of time. I feel like there was a time when a player knew he showed a guy (or a team) up and knew he was going to get pitched at, that playet just manned up and took it, and moved on. Bautista isn't that guy though, and it gets him in more trouble that it's worth. Last year with the Os and throwing out his arm, and now the likely collateral suspensions to his teammates on a team that's below .500. I just can't defend Bautista anymore. Whether it was a few years ago when he was notorious for arguing balls/strikes and people just said "he's competitive", or now being at the centre of every brawl -- he just needs to check his ego and play ball.

I don't think the punch was really dirty. It was a baseball brawl. Punches sometimes get thrown in fights. Don't make a ridiculously late slide into a guy of Odor's character, then puff your chest out while yapping, and wonder why you get slapped into next week.

Ya no kidding. It's like people are trying to pin pre-meditated murder on the guy. He caught the ball at his ankles and was trying to make the play at first. Meanwhile Bautista starts his slide practically on the bag and slides halfway to the outfield, but Odor is the bad guy here.

Lol, you think Donaldson looked at every replay from every feed before giving that interview? If he says he didn't throw a punch I'm inclined to believe him. All I saw was him tacking somebody, no punch.

Geez, as a Jays fan it's embarrassing how salty some of you guys are. Really grasping at straws here. Odor had to throw low sidearm if he had any chance at the DP, the ball was lobbed to him by the 3rd baseman and he caught it at his foot, a few inches off the ground. Even if Bush intentionally hit Bautista (which I have my doubts that late in a 1 run game, but being it's the last time these teams will play unless they meet in the playoffs again, it's certainly possible), there was no need for a slide like that. Bautista was half a step from the bag before he started his slide and slid way past the bag. The league is already looking at plays like this with the takeout slide rule changes, and he does something like that? It's stupidity. I wouldn't be surprised if they get matching (3-5 game?) suspensions -- I don't see why Odors should be any more severe just because Bautista walked into a punch. Guys take swings a lot in scuffles like this, it's just rare to see one land cleanly because they are usually broken up as fast as they start. Bautista always has to try and get the last "word" in, and it's bit him twice in two years now. Even if he thought Bush hit him on purpose, you had to think it was coming. Bautista pimped a homerun that he probably shouldn't have, take the bruise and move on -- focus on what matters, you're sitting at .500 as a team, and now a bunch of your teammates are looking at suspensions for defending your ego. Last year he got all hot headed against the Os and threw out his arm trying to hot dog a play in right after being thrown at (trying to throw a runner out at first on a single), and then he slides like this and puffs his chest out at Odor. No wonder he got clocked. Odor might be a dirtbag but he had every right to be upset with that slide. The unfortunate part is there might be teammates getting suspensions (Donaldson, Pillar?)... Gibby for sure for coming back out on the field and probably Chavez.

Never question your booze intake level.

And unless he wins an appeal, he's ineligible for the playoffs (even though his suspension is finished in July -- 1st and 2nd time offenders are playoff ineligible unless the suspension is reduced on appeal), so good chance he gets DFAed when he's back, or traded to a non-contender if the Jays are in the playoff picture.

In January 2004, Major League Baseball announced a new drug policy which included random, offseason testing and 10-day suspensions for first-time offenders, 30-days for second-time offenders, 60-days for third-time offenders, and one year for fourth-time offenders, all without pay, in an effort to curtail performance-enhancing drug use (PED) in professional baseball. This policy strengthened baseball's pre-existing ban on controlled substances, including steroids, which has been in effect since 1991.[1] The policy was to be reviewed in 2008, but under pressure from the U.S. Congress, on November 15, 2005, players and owners agreed to tougher penalties; a 50-game suspension for a first offense, a 100-game suspension for a second, and a lifetime ban for a third. In December 2009, Sports Illustrated named baseball's steroid scandal of performance-enhancing drugs as the number one sports story of the decade of the 2000s.[2] The current penalties, adopted on March 28, 2014, are 80 games for a first offense, 162 games for a second offense, and a lifetime ban for a third. Players are also prohibited from participating in that year's post-season regardless of when their suspension is completed.[3] It was 50, from after the 2005 season (November) until the start of the 2014 season (March).

I think I lost 25% of my braincells from this thread. This rotation is better than going into last year -- that's all you can really ask for.

It's probably close. Since service time plays a role in arbitration raises, simply having another year under his belt would mean he would see a raise, just a matter of how much, because lets be honest, he's not going to have a bad year (just a matter of how good). If he puts together a solid year but not quite up to last year, it's probably bang on what he would have got if they went to arbitration next year. If he puts up another MVP-type season they Jays are probably saving a few million. It's probably within a couple million in either direction, depending on how this year plays out. I'm a little surprised they did this instead of buying out all his arbitration years, if not going all-in and giving him a 4-5 year deal, thereby buying out 1-2 FA years, but Donaldson probably wasn't willing to give up 1-2 years of FA on a team-friendly deal. It seemed kind of pointless to me since it still leaves 1 year of arbitration on the table - but it's a little harder to predict his value 3 seasons in advance and both sides probably wanted to hold out on that. I guess it saves them from going to arbitration next year and it keeps both sides happy for now, but I didn't really see the point. I figured the plan was always to just take him year-to-year arbitration until he was a FA.

I think coming to terms with this sooner than later will lessen the blow if it happens. If he has another 2-3 solid years, possibly with another top-3 MVP finish, he's going to be entering 25-30M dollar range over 6-7 years, similar to Price.

I'd love for somebody to explain to me how Rogers is cheap when the Jays payroll is about double that of the Leafs and Raptors, who both sit around 70M. I realize there's a hard cap in the NHL, but the Jays budget blows the Raptors, Leafs and Toronto FC out of the water. The Leafs are nearly at the cap with a last place team -- I'd be embarrassed if I were a Leafs fan. Rogers is a publicly traded company, they are going to have methodologies and procedures for arriving at their budget, keeping shareholders interests in mind. 5 years ago the Jays were sitting around 64M. If you're older than 15-20 and didn't have to endure (or were too young to remember) the years of terrible ownership under Labatt / Interbrew (outside of 92/93), and the early Rogers years it's actually a pretty good time to be a Jays fan. Rogers has shown a big commitment to the Jays over the past 4-5 years, and there's no sign of them slowing down.

I read last year that the Blue Jays represents something like less than 5% of Rogers. Their cellular and internet businesses dwarfs the Blue Jays.

Price was never going to give Toronto a serious discount -- he played here for 2.5 months. It's not like Toronto drafted and developed this guy and he played here for 8+ years as a hometown hero. When you factor in the weak Canadian dollar, the many holes the Jays had in the rotation and pen at the start of the offseason, and the fact that a team that could contend like the Red Sox were willing to massively outspend anyone for Price, you're borderline delusional if you think the Jays had even the smallest of chances to keep Price. He was a rental from the minute AA traded for him. Believing he was anything else was just wishful thinking.

Like I said, I really doubt the Jays have 6.5-7.0M to add in salary. They also probably aren't looking to add somebody on a 2-3 year deal with Pompey waiting. They have Pillar, Bautista, Saunders and Pompey, and depth in guys like Carrera and Lake. Committing another 15-20 million over 2-3 years for a guy that likely slots in as a 4th OFer (maybe 5th) behind Pillar, Bautista and Saunders/Pompey seems silly.

And the Jays have a 4th OF. His name is Carrera (assuming Pompey stays in the minors to continue his development). If things get dire they can even though Colabello back out there while they look to make a trade or signing -- though that's less than ideal.

I really doubt Jackson is jumping at a one year deal -- where he isn't even guaranteed an everyday job.

So we just traded away a guy who's averaged 2.0WAR over the last 2 years who was projected to get 6.7M in arbitration, signed under that for 6.25M, and now people want to sign a guy who just made 7.7M coming off a 2.3WAR season. Seems about par for Jays fans. Now people are concerned about LF depth with just Saunders/Pompey -- I said the second Revere was traded it was risky. My guess is Jackson gets at least 2/15, if not 3/20, and I doubt the Jays have room to take on that kind of salary, and doing something like dumping Dickey to pick up a similar player to what they just traded is absurd. In a perfect world Saunders returns to his 2014 self and puts up 2.0WAR, making Jackson expensive, and redundant. With trading Revere the Jays have to hope one of Saunders or Pompey work out. They aren't just going to add a similar player to what they just deemed expendable.

When? Do you have an example? AFAIK the arbitrator picks either the value the player submitted, or the value the team submitted. No in between, no other values.

It's an absurd projection because it's based off the fact that he only plays in 113 games when he's played 151 and 152 games the last 2 years. The Nats traded for him because they needed a everyday OFer, not somebody who they were going to rest 50 games. It projects him to steal just 25 bases. He stole 31 and 49 over the last 2 years. He stole 24 with the Phillies alone last year, and only 7 with the Jays because they didn't want him running with guys like Donaldson, Bautista and EE hitting behind him. There's no way he only steals 25 in a full season in NL. He's only stole less than 25 once, which was in half a season (88 games) in 2013 when he stole 22. It's kind of ridiculous to think his BsR is going to go from 10.8, to 8.0, down to f***ing 3.0.

I basically posted the exact same thing on another board. I'm really surprised at how undervalued Revere was as a Blue Jay. The bullpen was the biggest need, but we just traded a guy who has averaged 2.0 WAR over the last two seasons, for a reliever who will pitch 55, maybe 60 innings and has averaged 1.0 WAR over the last 2 seasons, and projected (Steamer) to be worth 0.6 this year. I really think it was a poor deal value wise. At least the Jays aren't paying the increase in salary from Revere -> Storen, but that could be a cause for concern. I'm guessing cash is coming along with Storen because the Jays don't have any more of their own to use, which could make mid season deals a little more complicated. I like strengthening the bullpen, but the cost was too much. If it was for Saunders+ I wouldn't be complaining, but both Saunders and Pompey are question marks. They badly need one of those two guys to work out or LF could suddenly become a huge area of concern. At least with Revere you knew what you were getting.