Treeplant

Not a small sample size for the postseason. Nobody has a large sample size. I like Price a lot, I want him to do well. I just think some guys perform worse in the playoffs and Price is one of those guys. Stats just backup that he hasn't looked good in the postseason, they're not the be-all end-all argument. Even that first hit when he came in today, you could see him tapping his chest, that was a pitch that could have been a home run instead of a deep fly ball. There's no way to "win" this argument and you can either use the stats as support for the fact he hasn't pitched well or you can say it's so small a sample size compared to regular season it doesn't matter, but I think 50 innings is enough to say that he's had four or five games where he hasn't been his normal self and that's not good.

I remember watching an ALDS game a couple of years ago when he was with the Rays where he pitched against Boston and gave up 7 runs in 7 innings and it could have been worse, he looked really bad. He looked like he did today.

For sure, I was really worried about Osuna, had no idea what he'd do, looks really good. I'm not a big personal believer that matching lefties versus lefties matters all that much, especially in one off situations, but I realize I go against the grain on that. Either way though, losing Cecil hurts bad.

Mentioned this elsewhere, but Price now has a postseason ERA of right around 5. He's had 50 innings of work, so it's not exactly a small sample size. I really think the pressure gets to him and he doesn't know how to handle it that well. Not a true "choker", but he's only had one solid postseason game (for Detroit in 2014).

Pros Like where the team is at mentally now versus where they were after giving up on a couple of games and losing the AL crown. The adversity of going down 0-2 was a needed wake up call IMO. Big three living up to their rep. Pillar looking awesome. Estrada and Stroman proving they can do it in the postseason. Dickey looking solid, if not spectacular. Cons I really am concerned that Price is not the same pitcher in the postseason as he is in the regular season. Can't find updated stats with this game included, but I believe he now has an ERA that's 5+ in a significant postseason sample size (50 innings). The pressure gets to him it looks like. Goins has not looked good at the plate. Hopefully it won't matter. Tulo isn't a full con, but I think he's missed two ground ball plays he'd normally make this series and while the home run was awesome, the rest of his hitting hasn't looked good. Hopefully getting that monkey off his bat will translate to at least a .200 average for the rest of the playoffs. Pitching drama/confidence issues. Hopefully it doesn't matter. Overall Overall I like where we're at more than we were when we entered the postseason. I was concerned about the way we trailed off/gave up at the end of the regular season and I never like having a bunch of major media outlets predict the Jays as WS champions. Going down 0-2 is the best thing that could have happened to this team I think, hopefully they can pull it out Wednesday and hopefully they can figure out Price one way or another (either get him back on track or limit his usage so he doesn't lose us two games in a series). What do you guys think were the biggest pros/cons of the series thus far?

Loup family issue? Did I miss that or that just came out?

What an idiot Gibby saying he thought Choo was going to hit Dickey. It's exactly what I thought when I saw the move, but why would you say it in a press conference?

I think this is it.

"It's a little bit hard as a competitor" Dickey on getting pulled. Said it was "nothing", but you can tell he didn't like it.

To be fair when Martin said he didn't understand what Gibbons was thinking he also said he would never question bringing in a Cy Young caliber pitcher. Martin didn't say it negatively, but it just goes to show that a very experienced player like Martin didn't understand it.

"Didn't know what Gibbons was thinking there" - Martin on the Dickey pull. Lol.

Anyone sort of happy this wasn't a 10-1 blowout?

Who's pitching the 9th? Donaldson?

I'll grant some "mismanagement", but the guy's era just got pushed over 5 I think in the post-season with a 50 inning sample. There's a point where you have to stop making excuses and acknowledge some people change for the worse when the pressure's on.

Any chance we go to a three man rotation in the next series (if we make it), and just use Price to give up a run every inning or two when we have massive leads? I was really hoping it wasn't the case but I think we've got a regular season ace, post season choker.

Price does not look like an ace, just like Game 1. Scary moving forward.

I don't think it has anything to do with Price getting the W on paper.

We have been given reasons not to be calm.

Right? ....... Right?

Really brutal presentation from Fox. They habitually miss pitches trying to cram extra segments in, come back late from commercials and the commentators talk through plays so you're left confused at times as to what's happening. Wish we could get a Kickstarter campaign going or something to hire Pat/Buck to call these games and get the regular production guys back.

The other thing about using Price in this game is that if he wants to straight up pitch Stroman ahead of Price in Game 5 (which I would like to see), using Price here avoids having to start Stroman ahead of Price on shorter rest, which would be a pretty clear "you're not the #1 here now" message to Price and could really wreck Price mentally. This way, with Price coming into the game now, Price gets a bit of confidence (or he shows you he's a true playoff choker when you still have a chance to recover), gets set up for Game 1 of the next series (if it happens), and he gets to use Stroman in Game 5 without upsetting the natural pecking order. Also, where I wouldn't want to pull Price from the game after 4.2 innings because he's obviously got playoff headgame/mental demons, I think this is more likely to motivate Dickey than to screw him up for his next start like it would Price. Again, I don't really like these moves, but I can see how if it works out he gets Price/Stroman/Estrada/Dickey set up for the next series in their "natural" order without having had to publicly drop Price down a peg by starting Stroman ahead of him.

This IS a little weird, but Choo was 2/2 and looked like he had a lock on Dickey that last at bat. I sort of understand - sort of - not letting Choo get another look at Dickey with Beltre (also 2/2 in spite of looking crippled out there) right behind him. Sort of. Still don't like this, I'd have liked to spot Dickey 2 more runs or an obvious meltdown before pulling him, but then again nobody pays me to make these decisions.

How many people here actually want Dickey to start? I like the idea of Dickey being treated as a true starter. Period. End sentence. I don't like the move from a gut feeling about winning Game 4 perspective, Dickey in Game 4 makes me really nervous and I think there's a sizeable chance our playoffs are over tomorrow, but I like Dickey pitching Game 4 from a winning a World Series perspective. If we're going to win a World Series we need Dickey and trying to cut him out of the rotation to use Stroman/Price in Games 4/5 sends the message we don't trust him and screws up his rest cycle to the point where who knows what happens when he starts. If we're so high on Stroman and distrustful of Price that we'll try to squeeze Stroman into Game 4 ahead of Price (as has been suggested), I think we're making moves out of fear/mistrust of the guys we will absolutely need to win a World Series. We tell Price/Dickey we don't trust them in this series and we create a pitching soap opera for the next series that I don't possibly see ending well. Price is our ace, our Cy Young candidate. Dickey has pitched good ball to end the season as much as we all fear a blow-up knuckleballer outing. We think Stroman and Estrada can anchor us in the middle of our rotation: Great, that gives us a World Series shot. They can't win the rest of the games to a World Series between them, we need Price and Dickey. Dickey starts Game 4. Price starts Game 5. We make it through this series with that and we've put our major playoff demons to bed, ended the idiotic losing/confidence funk we sunk into to end the season where we gave up on the AL crown, and play the type of Jays ball we saw in August hopefully. My two cents at least.

I get really frustrated by results-orientated discipline. These slides have been happening all season. Look at Tulo's slide tonight where he didn't even go for the bag (though he didn't really come close to making contact either)! It was a hard play in the sense that Utley was trying to knock the defensive player out of the player out of the play hard, but we've seen a lot of that. Like someone said above, the NHL didn't enforce head shots (which is a good comparison problem to this) in the middle of the playoffs. If he doesn't get hurt no way anyone even second guesses the play. Completely results orientated freakout/suspension. I'd like these hard slides taken out of the game myself because they're not worth the risk, but take them out properly, don't suspend one guy who does what's been done a thousand times without penalty in the playoffs.

I've never had an issue with Gibbons personally. This, however, I really didn't like. Jays go cruising into the postseason with their foot off the gas against a Rangers team jacked up coming off their WC win. I didn't expect the Jays to win the first game and today's game was one of those toss ups. I think we look good for Game 3 in terms of match ups and energy levels and I have way more confidence in Price in Game 5 than I did with him in Game 1 so Game 4 is the game I'm worried about right now. I really wish Gibbons had have gone for the AL title and fielded more competitive teams at the end.