baloojayz

How am I supposed to respond to that?

Sounds like you guys already bought your flex packs.

What?? Srsly? Hahhahhaha

Mike Aviles make me hopeful that this compensation could actually work in our favour. Give them Estrada, sign SP

Where's that pos Esmil Rogers when you need him...

So do they get awarded compensation or is it more or less an agreement?

I agree its a douche move before the meetings but they still aint getting nutin

f*** that, they ain't getting s***.

JPA was terrible both defensively and offensively. Navarro is below average defensively, good offensively. Sure JD will likely outperform Lawrie, my point was his acquisition means less with us already having Lawrie. Lind for Saunders is a good trade but it was more like Lind and Melky for Saunders. Money we saved doesn't matter until it is spent. We are just so far HOPING Smoak works out, just as we are Pompey and Travis. Thats now 3 positions with guys that hopefully work out. Getting better defensively is good OFCOURSE, but Melky's batting average was a huge complement to the big guys and he adds far more value to the team offensively than Saunders does defensively. We'll see I guess. Goins' stellar defense is very easily over looked by his terrible offense. WAR is one of those stats that is calculated in a vacuum, thats about all I care to say about it. WAR "double counts" a good bit of value when you go from individual players to a team.

That people get so excited over so little. Just feels like as long as the trades are fair, AA could just take one man hole cover plug another manhole and move another cover to another and people will be in awe of his greatness temporarily, but pissed again when they figure out they still have the same number of holes in the ground. The only way THIS team is getting better is by spending money, unfortunately. The Martin signing would have been HUGE if it was JPA behind the plate. Navarro actually did an ok job.. The Donaldson trade would again be HUGE if we didn't already have a player capable of putting up 4+WAR at the same position, but we did and now we don't. Basically in the end we are a better team, but not by much and certainly not by enough to win the division. WAR is a terrible way to approximate how much we've improved. Happ was about equal value to Estrada so basically we traded Lind for Saunders, meh at best. We saved some money for Rogers in the process, sure. Meanwhile we lost Melky and Rasmus, but we're better defensively so its all good right? AA has much to prove yet.

Lind for Estrada and then Happ for Saunders??? Just sayin

Rolf, ok not going to happen for SO many reasons. Would be nice though. Closers gotta be developed internally IMO. Sign some guys for 7th 8th inning work of similar capability to Loup. Let em battle it out. Janssen showed up outta nowhere. Cecil Sanchez Loup 2 signed relievers Someone wins the job outta spring training. Then we have Drabek Redmond and Estrada for long relief, spot duty, and mop-up.

Just so awesome the Bluejays pulled off all these moves before the winter meetings. It seems every year, when we wait and expect nothing comes of it. Now all we need is some small pieces, the rest is still available via FA. A little torn on the whole SP debate, I am against going after an ace, BUT by not re-signing Melky and non-tendering the bunch and signing Smoak so cheap, saves us a lot of money. You add the fact that we probably wont be trading for top end SP via trade to save our prospect pool and the fact we passed on scrubs like Erwin Santana last yr and we already lost the 1st for Martin...oh and that the Yanks and Baltimore are probably going to make some moves here....I think it is about as perfect an opportunity as the Jays are ever gonna get.

I hope so, Christmas will be that much sweeter

So would AA, until Lawrie got injured again and that projected 4 war became 1.5

What do we give up tho?

Haha wth??? lol

Basically what I was too brain dead to say.

Well said. Just look at KC as an example of how good hitting and base-running can win over SP. There is no formula that works all the time, there are different ways to win and the reason they work is they are very specialized. KC had maybe the best BP of any of those teams and played a style that let them use that to their advantage. Why do you think Detroit lost with Price, Verlander, etc? Surely they had the ultimate team. They had bats but no BP. They tried to better their SP instead.

That's exactly it! The team AA has assembled now will surprise a lot of people. Even though we had an offensively minded team in 2011, they don't compare to the potential of this years team. The key difference? OBP In 2011 50% of our regulars had an OBP under .300 LOL, not BA, OBP In 2014 we were much better and also had a much better result. When Boston was great a few years back and even NY, you'd notice they would grind out every frekin at bat. They were good offensively not because they could hit homers and strike out a lot, but more cuz they were good hitters and got on base and understood situational hitting. IMO there is a huge difference in a team that hits a lot of homeruns and scores a lot of runs vs a team that scores a lot of runs but not necessarily via HR. The BJs have been the swing for the fences kind of offense the last decade or so. Basically, I expect strikeouts to be down further this year with Lawrie, Francisco, & Rasmus gone, and hopefully less of Goins helps team batting overall as well. Melky leaving will suck though. I think you see what I'm getting at. Ofcourse SP isn't useless, but I feel a back end (3-4)SP and 2 shutdown RP will get us a lot further than James shields and a trial experiment in the BP.

Value of having an ace in Toronto would be less than having one in Tampa or Kansas for example b/c he would be backed by higher run support. In a lot of these games, the run support could more than easily be enough for a replacement level pitcher to win the game in Toronto (b/c of the crazy OBP driven offence) as opposed to in mediocre offence teams and the money will be better spent on factors that could contribute everyday like defence and the bullpen (ASSUMING there's a budget).

No aces please, waste of that saved money

IMHO Aces provide value in spades when they are drafted and signed to reasonable terms by the same team (obviously heh?). From what I have seen, either in free agency or via trade, it just isn't worth it (going after aces) mainly due to the durability of SP and their ability to sustain the same level of success. I'd much rather go after a solid #3 pitcher and sign him to a good contract while everyone is chasing the big guys and go for a shut down bullpen. If for no other reason, it will be a LOT cheaper than trying to build the perfect starting rotation, it will never be good enough, and we are close to this "budget" ceiling. We have enough depth in the case of injury assuming we sign one SP here. One thing I'm sure everyone saw last year, Dickey was really good up until the 5th inning. With a strong BP he would look even better if we could pull him after the 5th every now and then when he isn't looking relaxed. I know we got him to be a 7 inning ace or w/e, but moving forward (can't do nothing about the past), improving the bullpen would help all our SP (just as signing Martin helps ALL pitchers and is crazily under-rated for that reason). Looking at the strengths of the club so far, its clearly offence and the bats. It would be much better to complement that with a good BP that can contribute everyday versus a SP that pitches every 5 days; especially considering a few of the games this ace pitches could be blowouts given our bats and it wouldn't matter who was pitching. Playoffs ofcourse are a slightly different beast, but even aces like Lester and Shields didn't fare too well anyways.

Looks like something is in the works for 1B with Lind gone and now Smoak, maybe something big???

And 1B?