metafour

It WAS a PR move because Edwin was seeking $100 mill or more. He turned that down (as expected) but the market ended up being completely dry and he ultimately had to sign for even less than the offer we gave him. That was kinda the year when everyone in baseball collectively decided that past-30 DH only players weren't going to be getting $100+mill 5+ year deals anymore.

I don't get it, does Vlad still suck because he's fat, or what's up? I'm kinda confused considering that this even fatter guy is now all of a sudden the talk of the town?

Syndergaard was already showing considerably better stuff at the same age, so your comparison is stupid. That was the entire point. The fact that he's 6'6 doesn't mean s*** about his velocity (ie: no, it doesn't mean we just gave up a guy who going to throw 100mph). Also: while we haven't seen Kendall Williams pitch this year because the MILB season was cancelled, would we not expect the Blue Jays front office to HAVE seen him pitch behind the scenes? If it looked like he was showing anything near Syndergaard level ability, he wouldn't have been traded for Stripling.

I saw someone else post something brilliant: If a team is winning by a large margin and that team's pitcher is throwing a no-hitter, why is it considered kosher for that pitcher to "keep trying" in the 8th and 9th innings? I can't imagine that being a batter on the team that is being no-hit is a good feeling, so if its say 7-0 in the 9th inning, should that pitcher not be deliberately laying off the batters to preserve their dignity?

I get what you're saying, but the net effect isn't likely to be that drastic IMO to actually warrant worrying over it. For example, as I expect most if not the entire 2020 season to be played out, I can't imagine that 2018 records will be brought into any calculations whatsoever. If they do some combination with last year, we still picked 5th a year ago which is more likely to help us in any "combined" draft order than hurt us IMO. A combinated draft order would obviously hurt a team like the Red Sox, as you mentioned.

Sure, in which case the selection would be legitimate.

Under which scenario? I can't imagine any situation wherein the team with the worst record doesn't get the first pick that doesn't include a lottery-situation wherein random chance plays a factor. I mean, I guess you could argue that they implement a lottery and then fix the results. But otherwise, I really don't see any situation wherein Manfred just makes up the order in his mind. Why? For the obvious reason that he'd get crucified for any decision that implies even the slightest favoritism.

Teams not finishing the season would kick-in a draft lottery of some sort. Otherwise, since this is being billed as a real season, expecting anything other than standard procedure is farfetch'd. A complete collapse of the season would bring forth a draft order that combines whatever games were played this year with last year's standings, most likely. What is it that you think Manfred is going to do? I'm aware that he has power to dictate the draft order. He has also been completely shamed by the media over the handling of COVID - so to expect him to do something wild with the draft order is silly. He isn't THAT dumb or incompetent. The way you guys are talking its as if you seem to think he's going to walk out and announce that the Yankees, Dodgers, and Red Sox get the Top 3 picks. Yeah, that isn't going to happen.

There's no Torkelson/Martin, but Jud Fabian is likely right there with Gonzalez if not probably higher due to his greater ceiling (CF > 2B and greater power potential). Its hard to say with no baseball season being played. Brady House is also getting some Kris Bryant comps on the HS side.

If all teams play the majority of their games, the draft order will be determined as it always is. It's pretty silly to assume otherwise.

Furthermore, if the Yankees had some "secret formula", why didn't Drury and McKinney flourish with them? Both were obviously talented/capable hitters.

I agree! We're so blessed to have such a great authoritarian voice to guide us ) Dear leader sets the best rules )

No, thats not what its about. But believe what you wish.

Wow, you're such a big strong man! Thank you for allowing me to post on YOUR glorious forum.

What the hell is going on with the censorship on this forum? Delete that post if you don't want people talking about political discourse. You don't get to have your cake, and eat it too. You are either going to allow open discourse on the topic, or ALL mention of it will be removed. Get rid of that f***ing Biggio BLM post.

It makes entirely perfect sense. The argument that you guys are presenting is that Torkelson is fully deserving of the #1 slot, and thus giving him say "only" ~$8.1 million is "dicking him around". So much so, that supposedly he could just go back to school and get the full slot next year as a Senior (he absolutely wouldn't, in fact he'd get low-balled regardless of what records he broke). By the same logic, I think we'd all agree that Martin is "worthy" of the full #2 slot, especially when there is an argument to be made that he's just as good a prospect or better than Torkelson depending on the parameters one looks at. He obviously wanted the full slot from Baltimore - and dropped past their pick because of it. So following that thought process, we dicked Martin around by not meeting his demands, because we in fact didn't even give him the slot value of the #3 overall pick ($7.22 million). Saying that he got the 2nd highest bonus doesn't disprove this line of logic, as my argument isn't resting on Detroit hypothetically low-balling Torkelson in any way - my only claim was that giving him the full #1 slot was unnecessarily caving and that a more data-driven team would have maximized the bargaining power that inherently comes with the holding the #1 overall pick, which they didn't do. But my argument is that Detroit would still be offering him $8+ million, with Adley Rutschman's bonus last year as the barometer for Detroit's hypothetical offer. They just went ahead and gave him $300K+ more than what Rutschman signed for last year, and they really didn't have to do that, nor did they make a smart move by not doing more diligent negotiating. Torkelson really has no legitimate bargaining power in turning down $8+ million, just like Martin had no real bargaining power in turning down $7 million from us even though it was less than what he obviously was hoping to receive.

Its not confused at all. Had Detroit given Torkelson a little bit more than what Rutschman received last year, he still would have been the highest paid player in this draft - by over a million dollars. Thats the entire reason why virtually every #1 pick under the current system signs for under-slot: even under-slot at #1 is more than anyone else is going to get, and its more than what the player would receive the following year as well. We did not dick anyone around. Frasso was signed for an amount that he agreed upon before even being selected. Thats how these things work under the current system.

I had an entire post lined up to respond to this that could axed as I was trying to post it. No, Torkelson would not have made any more money next season as a Senior with no leverage. He would have almost certainly lost money. No team is going to give a Senior the #1 overall slot when they have zero reason to. They don't even give the full slot to Juniors (which is the entire point of this discussion). Playing the market appropriately is not "dicking" anyone around. Austin Martin was every bit "deserving" of the full #2 overall slot ($7.79 million) on talent and yet we "only" gave him $7 million. Were we "dicking him around"? We could have easily punted the Trent Palmer pick entirely and paid Martin the full #2 slot like he wanted from Baltimore. We of course didn't, because we accurately understood that $7 million was a fair offer and that he'd be foolish to test the waters for more money next season. Even Boras understood that. Also, you're out to lunch if you think that the slot values are going to increase next year. They stayed the same from 2019 to 2020 and are obviously tied to league financial performance. We're playing a 60-game season...why the hell would MLB and the Owners agree to INCREASE the amateur slots next year? If anything, the slots will DROP to reflect the shortened season.

Does it matter? Probably not, but a smart organization strives to squeeze out every efficiency available to them, down to the last drop. Is Detroit a smart organization? What they did was pointless and to no benefit of themselves. I don't believe that any offer similar to what Rutschman signed for last year would be "jerking Torkelson around", especially considering that he offers virtually no defensive value. The fact that he even went 1-1 as a RHB 1B-type is already a "record breaking" draft moment. I never claimed it was some colossal mistake - but it sure as s*** wasn't optimal planning and negotiation.

It was full slot value - but the power behind the 1st overall pick is an assigned slot so high that its silly to just hand the whole thing over, which is why it rarely happens. Adley Rutschman set a new bonus record last year at $8.1 million, with the same slot value ($8.42 mill) as this year's 1st overall pick. Detroit just kind of blew that record out of the water with the full slot, and is Torkelson even a better prospect than Rutschman? I think that any time you hand over the full slot at #1, you are absolutely caving, because what power does the player actually have? I'm not really surprised because Detroit isn't exactly a "creative thinking" organization, but it really wasn't the best move to optimize their return.

What exactly was the logic with Detroit caving in to Boras like that on Torkelson?

And what, Grichuk isn't a hard worker and doesn't have a desire to win? Are you only a hard worker if you take every opportunity possible to beat everyone over the head with how supposedly "hard working and competitive" you are?

I know everyone wants him to "get in shape", but if you look at those photos of him as a kid and analyze his overall physical frame as an adult: what you see is what you're going to get. Dude is just naturally going to be the shape that you see, period. His ass and hips are massive. He actually carries his weight pretty well (which is why he's still able to show some athleticism), but the idea that he's going to "diet" his way down to some ripped physique is prosperous. Genetic predisposition and skeletal structure are very much a real thing.

Because the $97,500 he received is more than the $20,000 he would have received as an undrafted signing. By agreeing to take less, he earned more. Zach Britton was not a Top 200 ranked talent - we overdrafted him by a few rounds in order to save money, hence the reduced bonus.